Re: Origins of Rap

Matthew Robert Chicoine (scooby@umich.edu)
Mon, 19 Feb 1996 18:55:43 -0500 (EST)


First, apologies for including the whole previous text, it just
helps me when I'm responding. I still don't understand why people are
riffing about where "rap" came from. I could really care less, but that's
just me. Say you finally "establish" the origin of rap, where are you
then? Its somewhat relevent, I don't want to write this whole thing off,
but the tone seems to be implying the whole ownership thing. So elements
of Jamaican dancehall/reggae are very prominent in hip-hop, and those
artists deserve big ups. But you've got to realize that at some point,
some element of music is always borrowed/appropriated/imitated in a new
form. Thats what I was saying about purism in music, its complete
bullshit, its a misnomer, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about hip-hop.
The shit we dig- jazz, hip-hop, funk, dancehall, latin, jungle, whatever-
are all dope for the mere fact that they are 20th century music, music
that has come to fruition BECAUSE of the accelerated pace that
music/cultures are colliding in conjunction with technological
advancements. So why the bickering over "whose" music is rap? You could
argue about it forever and it would get you nowhere. Don't let national
boundaries stop you, you could keep going with "Its a Black thing, Its a
male thing, Its a New York thing, Its a South Bronx thing." Thats a lot
of stupid bullshit. All you can really do is give acknowledgment and
props. "Realize, its all one" -DJ Shadow. I love that statement, its all
that needs to be said. Peace-
bubblicious

On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, John Schauer wrote:

> It's always silly to argue origins, but..... This seems like a simple test to
> see whether rap was brought whole-cloth from Jamaica.
> 1) Are there any pre-1980 Jamaican recordings that most people today would
> recognize as "rap"? No
> 2) Are there any pre-1980 American recordings that most people today would
> recognize as "rap"? There are dozens including Jimmy Spicer, the Sugarhill Gang,
> etc.
>
> "Rap" as we know it, existed in America before it existed in Jamaica. In order
> to be "brought to the South Bronx, NYC by Jamaican immigrants" it would have to
> exist in Jamaica first, unless the immigrants created the art form in transit.
>
> Influence does not equal "invention." Most "rock and roll" can trace it's roots
> to early blues, that does not mean Robert Johnson invented or played "heavy
> metal." The organ was first played in Europe. That does not mean that organ
> jazz was played or created by 19th century Europeans!
>
> In the same way, hip hop was greatly influenced by Jamaican sound systems, dj's
> etc. (and their interaction with American music and performance) but what was
> created in NY was a new, American, art form.
>
> >I like to add to "DJ Shadow article from Chris Hilker from SF Weekly" e-mail
> >that Rap, the musical form associated with the Hip Hop culture, does not
> >have its origins in NYC as most people believe. They believe wrong. This
> >honor belongs to a tropical island called Jamaica. The Rap form has its
> >origins in Jamaica as toasting which has its origins way back to the late
> >'50s. It was brought to the South Bronx, NYC by Janaican immigrants.
> >Understanding your history is important.
> >
> > Juano
>
>
>