Juano
jaraya@lucent.com
>----------
>From: Scott Tennent[SMTP:feesh@asu.edu]
>Sent: Monday, October 27, 1997 4:06 PM
>To: elson trinidad
>Cc: mark givens; acid-jazz@ucsd.edu
>Subject: Re: Portishead: whats wrong with Trip-hop
>
>
>it seems to me that no one has too many problems using terms like jungle,
>techno, punk, ska, hip hop, whatever. At least there is not the AVERSION
>and HATRED of those terms that seems to go with tr*p h*p (just the fact
>that people censor the term like that is evidence! I hate the term but Im
>gonna use it because THAT IS THE TERM).
>Elson has a good point about whether or not the term comes from the
>arttist or the media. Along the same lines, I think the reason people
>(and even moreso the artists themselves) hate this term is because it is
>applied to two totally different forms of music and no one ever stopped
>to clarify--Ok, THIS is trip hop and THIS isnt--the difference Im
>speaking of is the sound "defined" (I use this word VERY loosely) by
>portishead and the sound "defined" by DJ Shadow. They're nothing alike!
>yet theyre both supposedly trip hop. And I feel like they both shun the
>term because it creates an unfounded alliance between to genres. SO the
>term loses its meaning. I think a similar situation was created through
>"acid jazz" as well.
>
>ON another note, to say jungle (or drum n bass, whatever) is punk in
>essence is only true to an extent. Music in general is reactionary. ALL
>ART is reactionary. And its not reacting against anything else than ART.
>Rock was a reaction, jazz was a reaction, hip hop was a reaction, techno,
>funk, punk, jungle, they all reacted against the complacent norm of the
>rest of music.
>An artform explodes on the scene and everyone says YES! SOMETHING NEW! A
>REASON TO SAY FUCK YOU TO THE REST OF MUSIC! (its a "punk rock" attitude,
>but the attitude has been around much longer than the term, and the
>attitude will outlive the term as well). But once enough buzz surrounds a
>new movement, it gets diluted. And Im even extremely hesitant to say that
>this is the fault of record labels (though they do play a part). Punk
>rock turned into green day. jazz turned into kenny G. Jungle turned into
>LTJ Bukem (am I stepping on toes?). Of course there are still
>revolutionaries within all of these genres (bands like modest mouse came
>out of punk, people like squarepusher came from jungle, etc.)
>What it comes down to is there are always a handful of artists out there
>doing something amazing and actually REACTIONARY. FEw artists actually
>embody the punk rock attitude.
>enough for now.
>scott
>
>On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, elson trinidad wrote:
>
>> At 07.48 AM 10/27/1997 PST, mark givens wrote:
>> > Dear List:
>> >
>> > I consider Portishead to be trip-hop (vocal). True they and ames
>> >Lavelle hate the term. But yet it persists. why? Because it fits.
>>
>> I"m not as bothered by the term "Trip Hop" as most people are, so I'm in
>> the same boat with you.
>> I mean, slowed-down loops, minor key and the lack of rapping are a dead
>> giveaway.
>> It's true many artists don't like being pigeonholed, yet at the same time
>> many of them are simply following a trend musically, but when they get the
>> chance, they start getting all snobbish and holier-than-thou about "We're
>> not that, that's just a media term, etc. etc." There's a huge amount of
>> hipocrisy in that although they start blaming the media for spoon-feeding
>> people that term, they are *heavily dependent on that same media* to
>> announce to the world that they're all high and mighty. (Things that make
>> you go hmmmm....) If artists truly want the music to 'speak for itself'
>> then they'd better shut up first and *let* it speak for itself.
>>
>> Speaking of media terms regarding music genres, I understand that generally
>> the whole fuss is about who said it first. If it came froma media source,
>> the artists will all resent it. But if it came from a musician, DJ, etc,
>> then it seems more acceptable. "Ska" was coined by a ska musician. And I
>> may be wrong on this, but
>> the much-more willingness by "Drum 'N Bass" artists to use that term
>> probably means it originated within the scene than from out of it. Then
>> again it also seems like most drum n bass artists have their own mission,
>> not just as an alternative to standard techno music (which really is a punk
>> version of disco on the most basic level), to make this music get a name
>> for itself, and earn its place in the history of music.
>>
>> Of course, there are exceptions; "Rock N Roll" was coined by a Cleveland,
>> USA (that's why the Rock N Roll museum is there) radio DJ (that's
>> considered media) and for years no one had a problem with admitting to
>> playing "rock" music. Also, "Acid Jazz" was coined by the very person who
>> detests it the most today, DJ Gilles Peterson (But I do believe we've gone
>> through that road many times...)
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>>
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