On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, aargh! wrote:
> At 02:49 AM 7/6/97 -0400, bijan@physics.att.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >i hesitate to get involved in what could be the best slanging match
> >on the list since datboy and loki (are you guys still around?) got
> >in the ring *but* since i have had long thoughts about this before
> >i will ignore the spectator in me (yes, there is one to ignore).
>
> Yep I'm still around. I changed my name and lurk a bit more than I did
> ... I didn't consider "datboy" having all those supposed racist
> connotations that I kept getting accused of all the time I had it. Best
> slanging match? Hee hee .... wow ... to me I was just calling a guy, you
> know? Didn't think it'd actually make an impression ..... :)
>
> >my thoughts were mainly provoked by a friend who would laugh at
> >what i, and to some extent we, listen to (especially instrumental
> >trip/hip hop). his initial response to listening to some ninja-tune
> >stuff (i forget the song, it was one of dj food's jazz brakes)
> >was "i bet the guy that wrote that is not as intelligent as bach".
> >i thought this was a ridiculous comment, mainly because who gives
> >a shit how intelligent the composer is, who knows how to measure
> >intelligence and so on.
>
> It goes deeper than that as far as I can see .... it has to do with a
> person's willingness to accept something truly different when they listen
> to a new style. Most of the people that I hear putting down any groove
> music think that if it doesn't have a melody and a chord progression, it's
> not music .... that to me is completely absurd. The stuff we listen to has
> other focus than just a head or a solo in the traditional sense ... so when
> I hear something that I have a strong reaction to, I listen to it until I
> know how it goes, and then I make up my mind whether I like it. One record
> in 20 years has failed the test ... Yes's "Talk".
>
> >in many ways i think that part of mark's question
> >is really not important for the same reason:
> >who cares how "creative" the composer is, who knows how to measure
> >creativity etc. what the overwhelming value and interest of
> >music to me is how aurally stimulating it is. i don't identify
> >strongly with the people who make the music and so i don't really
> >need to confirm my love for what they write by thinking about
> >how smart they are and how complicated and intricate their
> >compositions are: simple!
>
> Yeh .. Headz 2 is always going to be a great record because of the two
> versions of "The Real Thing" .... I put that and Breakbeat Science 2 on two
> 4 hr DATs and that way I can groove all day long ....
>
>
> >a similar thread came up on the breaks list once in reference to
> >wagon christ's throbbing pouch (which i believe to be a fantastic
> >work - totally hypnotic and a joy to listen to). he complained that
> >any old fool with a drum machine could make that album.
>
> Actually I laugh when I hear this argument, because I think "huh? Any old
> fool with a drum machine? *You* didn't make that album, muh-fuh!"
>
> >( ... but
> >of course you have to have some great programming skills to write
> >squarepushers stuff)
>
> Have you heard this Alroy Road Tracks thing that is Squarepusher in
> disguise? Spy 002 .... This was the first time I'd ever heard him, having
> missed the first album ... heard it the day before Hard Normal Daddy came
> out .... You talk about something tweaking my mind ..... I couldn't figure
> out what speed to play the record at .....
>
>
> >now, that said, you can engage in a discussion about the intellectual
> >value of a piece of music apart from it's musical interest. in this
> >activity i see a lot of parallels with modern art and modern classical
> >music. anybody can paint a red square really big, or record 3 minutes
> >of silence, so the skill of composition is not really important. and
> >once someone has drawn a big red square, it doesn't mean that
> >no-one can draw a lot of smaller red squares and call it art. (the analogy,
> >for those who think i am crazy, is to the use of the sample: a red square)
> >the prize goes to who thought of making the
> >particular composition as a whole. the same is true with dj cam: he
> >thought of bringing the elements he chose together in the way he did.
> >one great piece on no.10 the 2x12" from shadow has the n.o.w. piece
> >cut into the middle of another rhythm. i think that's great because
> >of the indescribable joy that i get hearing the transition between
> >what are two well used samples. if the composition brings to life
> >somthing the sampled piece didn't touch, or whatever, the composer
> >has done his job, and deserves credit for his *creation*.
>
> I don't know about that ... all the guy has to do is put a frame around it
> and after that it's a matter of taste. Some people would be happy to check
> out that red square.
>
> I don't know how else to describe why I like what I do ... I mean ..
> "Pocket Calculator" by Kraftwerk has to be one of my favorite songs EVER,
> but it's So Stupid .... so cartoonish .... and so of-its-time. I listen to
> a lot of cheesy stuff on the offchance that something I really like will
> happen and I'll stumble over something I like .... these are two really
> crass examples but I really like Jocelyn Rodriguez's "Do You Miss Me" and
> Crush's "Jellyhead." The musician in me thinks, these songs are
> ultra-cheese, this is nothing special, someone programmed a verse and a
> chorus and sang over it. Big deal. The listener/absorber/fan in me likes
> them a LOT because they're catchy, very singalongable, and totally
> brainless ... I can do anything while listening to these songs and still
> absorb them ....
>
> I equate my musical taste with my culinary taste. When you sit down to eat
> you don't have chicken vindaloo, chicken vindaloo, chicken vindaloo,
> chicken vindaloo, chicken vindaloo, chicken vindaloo, and chicken vindaloo.
> That would be incredibly heavy. You have a salad here, a stalk of
> vegetable there, a roll here, a salad there, etc. etc. etc. And I really
> like jello music as much as I like the caviar music, you know? But I
> wouldn't want either all the time ....
>
>
> c'ya
>
>
>