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You didnt mention the cool Massive interview.
"You should have seen us ten years ago. You would have thought we were from
New York. We had all the Kangols, the whole kit and caboodle. Then we got
wise to the game and thought, "Hold on a minute. We love hip-hop, but why
are we trying to pretend that we're from the Bronx?" That's where we
conciously started bringing in other elements of music we were into, and
that's how we got our sort of eclectic tag."-- Daddy G (a.k.a. Grant
Marshall) of Massive Attack
Grant: I'm looking for a knife, so I can change the polarity of my plug.
See, there's a different voltage system here and I've got one of these
universal plugs. It's got a nick in it where you can change the voltage.
Tom: Where are you?
Grant: In Brussels, where it's a different ball game, a different voltage
system. I want to hear our new mixes. We've got some new mixes from Blur and
Mad Professor.
Tom: Blur, you said?
Grant: They remixed "Angel" for us. I heard the tracks last night and I want
to check them again.
Tom: What are you doing in Brussels?
Grant: We just did the European leg of the world tour we've got.
Tom: I'd be curious to hear how your live show has evolved. I know it's
something that Massive was concerned with on this album-- creating more of a
live feel and integrating instruments more into your approach.
Grant: That's not actually true, because we've been working on the album for
the last three or four years. We toured for Blue Lines and Protection.
Touring has been quite a transition for us, because originally we couldn't
give a damn, really. We just thought that we had made the album and it was
good enough, so we were going to go on hold. That was the idea, but slowly
and surely you realize that that's not the case.
Tom: You wanted to let the music stand on its own.
Grant: Yeah, but at the end of the day there's more to it than meets the
eye. People want to see if you've got any guts, and what your about. They
want some personality behind the music. That's what really forced us to get
on the road and start using the band. You-based project to a live-based
thing.
Tom: Is Mezzanine different in that sense?
Grant: Yeah, because we've taken our experience of the last four years and
reversed it. We've gone back in the studio to create this more organic sound
which was more in tow with what we were trying to do live. Also, our
influences go back quite a while, and our musical tastes are quite
different, so we're always bringing something new to the Massive Attack
table.
Tom: What are the current musical interests of the members of Massive
Attack?
Grant: There's always been new music that has interested us. Blue Lines and
Protection sort of concentrated influences that were around us during the
Wild Bunch days, when we were together as a DJ collective. But I think that
this album is more reflective, in that we have disregarded those stylistic
elements and gone back to more of our personal concerns. The tracks were all
done on seperate occasions, because we weren't getting on-- going back in
the studio together to do the third album wasn't going to work. So it was
the case of us going into the studio separately, which meant being quite
personal with our ideas. I feel that Mezzanine reflects more of where me and
3D (a.k.a. Robert del Naja) come from, in that we were into punk music and
reggae at one time, back in the early 80's. The two movements had a common
goal of sorts.
Tom: That's where the dub and Clash influence comes into this album.
Grant: This is where the crossroads of the album actually is. Those
movements were influential, though, only in that we were trying to capture
the same atmospheres as maybe the Clash did when they decided to tone down
their guitars and start cross-culturalizing their music with other things,
and trying to be a bit more adventurous.
Tom: One thing that I think confuses American fans is the different roles
you three play in the creative process.
Grant: There are not at all different roles, because with Massive Attack
it's about getting ideas across. We are not the archetypal band type of
thing, where we're sitting in the studio saying, "I've got this tune, and it
starts out in B-major, what do you guys got?" Quite a lot of the ideas we
have are disperate, written on bits of paper, or they start out with simple
samples that one of us might have looped on a cassette. The music builds up
from there.
Tom: Each of you doesn't necessarily focus on only one aspect of production?
Grant: We all have our weaknesses and our strengths. That's one reason why
Massive Attack works so well. We don't all have to be in the studio at the
same time, fighting over who wants to work with the engineer on whatever. We
each can come into the studio with our own ideas and work on the thing
there, and leave it for another one of us to enhance or expand on it from
there. If you want to look at it on a more structural basis, in most
respects myself or Mushroom (a.k.a. Andrew Vowles) will probably find the
loop or the beat, and start it off on a simple basis. 3D's strong point is
that he can actually carry tracks through, and make them work. That is where
quite a lot of the conflict came from on this album. Me and Mushroom are
used to working in a certain way, and 3D was instrumental in taking it in a
different direction, incorporating maybe going for the big thing on the
guitars and such.
Tom: He was more into that?
Grant: Yeah, and I was into it, whereas maybe Mushroom wasn't so much into
it. He comes from more of a hip-hop based background. Guitars and such
aren't really his thing. That created quite a conflict in the studio,
because we were moving away from what we were used to
working with.
Tom: You guys initially defined the sound of Britain's hip-hop sound, at
least to the outside world.
Grant: God, you're dying to say "trip-hop," aren't you? [Laughs] You were
dying to say that word.
Tom: Well, no, but we can definitely get into that whole issue.
Grant: Let's not get into that.
Tom: I know that trip-hop is a categorization that you guys want to step
away from.
Grant: People have been trying to label Massive Attack as this trip-hop
outfit. This is what's happening in Europe-- I don't think you Americans
have taken that on board, and I'm glad, in a way, because it's all bullshit.
Somebody's made a terminology out of our music and everyones tried to copy
suit, with the music and the name, and everything. Now that we have moved
away from that sound, the name doesn't really apply. I'm quite interested to
see what people are going to try and label the music as now. We're musical
fans, really. That's where we came from originally when approaching our
sound. Quite a lot of the ideas we use, and the inspirations we get are
things that we've always been down with: Tracy Thorn [ETBTG], Liz Frazier
[Cocteau Twins], Horace Andy. They were artists that we used to love playing
as DJ's, as a little collective. We had a hip-hop background as DJ's, but
what is good is that we incorporated into that all the stuff that we'd been
interested in as kids, growing up in England. It's been fifteen years now
since we were coming into our early twenties, our most formative years, when
we were into everything-- punk, rap, soul, new wave, reggae, dub.
Everything. Basically, we're just a bunch of guys that had the opportunity
to go into the studio and make records, and we've improved our technique
over the years.
Tom: You were definitely the first on this scene, then others followed. So
I'm wondering if the legitimization of your musical ideas by imitation has
put any pressure on you to do something different and to sort of distance
yourself from the trip-hop category.
Grant: Good question. No, not really, because we never looked at the
competition. I must admit that our music, since 1992, has inspired quite a
lot of people to make that sort of music. But as far we're concerned, that's
just Massive Attack music. We never really staked claim that we're the band
with this certain label, and we've never, ever tried to live by that,
either. We've never looked at anybody being competition, because to us
competition is Massive Attack. There isn't anybody else doing our type of
music. As far as we're concerned, they can do their own thing-- though it's
rather feeble to make something that has become quite formulized, which for
us is organic and comes quite naturally.
Tom: What do you think of people you've worked with who have gone on to
really influential careers? I've heard you say good things about the music
of both Tricky and Portishead. What do you think about the Bristol sound and
the evolution of the Wild Bunch collective?
Grant: I think that's kind of cool, really. We try to distance ourselves
from defining that kind of relationship among all of us by saying that it
doesn't exist. But it does, really. There is some sort of collective, and in
a way we all come from the same sort of background. I think that we've each
taken a seed and gone off and done our own little things. Portishead are
influenced by reggae and the heavy bass sound and sparse beats. But their
take is really more on getting into soundtrack stuff-- like James Bond
movies, French New Wave, and Burt Bacarach. That's not where we're coming
from. We're coming from the perspective of incorporating some of the punk
elements we're into, and some of the reggae elements, and some of the soul
elements. Tricky, he's just going straight for angst, isn't he? The shocking
bit. We're not really about that. We want to do something that you can look
at and say, "That's kind of a poignant song, that's kind of a poignant beat,
that stuff is going to last, people aren't going to get bored with it."
Tom: How would you define hip-hop's influence on Britain and on your own
music?
Grant: The influence? Second to none. Originally, this is what was going on
with M. We started gigging around as DJ's with Nellee Hooper [Soul II Soul]
and Milo Johnson, original members of the band. You should have seen us ten
years ago. You would have thought we were from New York. We had all the
Kangols, the whole kit and caboodle. Then we got wise to the game and
thought, "Hold on a minute. We love hip-hop, but why are we trying to
pretend that we're from the Bronx? We're not from the Bronx, so let's not
pretend it. We don't talk about 40s and guns, and stuff like that, so lets
talk about what we're about." That's where we conciously started bringing in
other elements of music we were into, and that's how we got our sort of
eclectic tag. We thought, "Fuck it, what are we going to do now? We just
going to use the hip-hop base, and the hip-hop ethos and technology of
making records, and just be true to ourselves. Which meant incorporating a
bit of punk, a bit of soul.
Tom: Like painting, almost?
Grant: Yeah. You start off with the bass of the thing and add certain
colors-- and some people wouldn't put certain colors within certain
paintings.
Tom: You've had remarkable success without conforming to a pop format or
changing your sound. So I'm wondering why you think the world is now ready
for your sort of amalgamation of sounds and cultures.
Grant: What's going on now is that the world is getting a lot smaller.
Especially in America, I think that people are a lot more up for it, because
of the influence of British bands like the Chemicals, and worldwide, because
of the Internet. People can log on and hear different types of music.
Everything is at your disposal now, and people are getting wiser. Before,
especially in America or England-- where people thought, "Thats' American
music, let's leave that alone," or "That's English music"-- people kept to
the basics. Now, I think, color is coming out of music, to the point where
some people don't even listen to black music and some people don't listen to
rock. People are being a lot more honest with themselves about what they're
into now. I saw this documentary on the blues, with Led Zepplin, Rod
Stewart, Rolling Stones, and stuff like that. Some of these musicians were
talking about how they actually were copying black people's music. I didn't
quite realize that some of them were into the blues like they really were.
The Rolling Stones have changed their sound and gone into something else,
but essentially that is where they started from. Black music was such an
influence on them, so, in a way, that amalgamation and blending of sounds
and cultures has been going down in pop music for a long time.
Tom: You say that the world is getting smaller. Does that mean that you are
looking at the increase in the accessibility of information through various
media as a positive thing, and want to have a positive impact through that?
Grant: Over the last six or seven years kids have been exposed through cable
to a lot more forms. MTV has always supported what we have done. People are
just more aware now.
Tom: You speak of the proliferation of cultures that relate to hip-hop but
also to their own national music style. People are crossing lines a bit more
now.
Grant: I think this is brilliant. It's about time. When we lived in Bristol
in the early '80s, we were doing are parties and eclectic DJ mixes, throwing
things together that people just wouldn't expect, and creating waves. As far
as we were concerned, we were doing our own thing quite selfishly. Bristol
was on the map, but for its own thing. There was no reference to London back
then, until Massive Attack came out and did the record.
Tom: Would you define your sound as one that takes influences from the
world, or something that's been structured more by Bristol and Britain?
Grant: It's not a Bristol sound at all. The last couple of albums weren't
done in Bristol at all, in many ways.
Tom: I've noticed various elements on Mezzanine that are perhaps Jamaican
and Middle Eastern, so I want to know how your traveling influences your
sound.
Grant: Put it this way: Blue Lines was a quite organic album, and that was
because we came from DJ basis, straight from playing records for people.
Protection wasn't that organic, because we stopped doing all that and lost
that interaction. I think that's why Protection is a lot more polished than
Blue Lines. The fact that we have been out touring with the two albums since
then is the reason why we wanted to go back in the studio and create
something a lot more organic. Going out and playing for people is part of
the reason why Mezzanine sounds the way it does. We've realized all that we
can do. Quite a lot of the electronic sounds we've had on the studio-based
albums Protection and Blue Lines were transformed into guitar sounds and
organ sounds when we performed. Same with the drummer instead of a drum
machine. We realised that we could mess around with the sounds more, and
have more flexibility within the tracks. If you go and see us now, a lot of
the tracks that you hear are not carbon copies of what you hear on the
album, because it's a different medium. Playing live has given us a lot of
ideas to back with us to the studio.
Tom: How do you guys relate to your success? As artists, you need to be
almost selfishly individual, but does that make you kind of reluctant
superstars?
Grant: We look at fame and think, "Hold on a minute-- what's going on here?"
We started off with a sample-based album and we've worked to incorporate
instruments. Only now have we got to the state where we're an actual touring
band. To us, it was just a case of being bored with the DJ thing. We still
love the hip-hop culture and the fact that we still DJ in our spare time,
but it seemed not so fufilling to go and do Massive Attack live on stage
with only DJ's. We wanted to make it more exciting for the people. We tried
touring before in America as DJ's-- in 1991, with the Groove Collective--
and it was hysterical. They'd be on stage with fourteen people and kick it
off with whatever. Then they'd finish and we'd come on with two turntables
and a couple of singers, shifting around and feeling really uncomfortable,
and looking like right twats. We knew that we had to go back and think
again. Our live presence had to be a lot more exciting. You can't take DJ
culture back to Americans; they've already seen it. After that American tour
kicked us in the ass, we went back to the drawing board and re-thought the
shape and the formation of Massive Attack.
Tom: You're playing Madison Square Garden with the Verve. From a small
concert venue you played a few years ago, you've taken a huge step. What
were some of the important factors in that?
Grant: There's always been this real underground scene in England from the
early '80s, and we've always been a part of it. In 1986 we went to Japan as
DJ's with Neneh Cherry, and when we came back Milo moved to America and
Nellee Hooper moved to London, to work with Soul II Soul. [Wild Bunch] was
left with us, so we were forced to front the band. Neneh helped us out. She
said, "I remember you guys from last year and I want to sort of payroll you,
because I know you've got ideas." That's basically how we got signed.
Tom: So what does it mean to be playing for such a large crowd in America?
Is it because America is finally waking up?
Grant: The fact that Richard Ashcroft actually requested that Massive Attack
come on tour with them to America was a real compliment for us. We're not
coming out to support the Verve as such. We're coming out as the Verve's
guests. We've got our own type of music and we've got our own agenda to go
on. We don't want to go on the Verve's agenda. Massive Attack have got their
own story to tell. So total respect for the Verve, but we actually don't
really need the Verve to help us. But they are helping us in a big way,
because our past experinces touring in America haven't been too good. Now
we're more than ready.
Tom: What's the biggest misconception about Massive Attack that that you
would want to clear up?
Grant: This thing about trip-hop that we've been labeled with. It's a bit
offensive for some jerks to try and put a terminology to our music when they
don't really understand our music. Our music is kind of an open-ended book.
We draw from all different types of background music and we're culturally
different as well. We can create anything. I reckon we represent an eclectic
barometer of music that has actually gone on for young kids in Britain since
the late 70's, really. It's like a big jigsaw puzzle. We can take bits of
music and mix them together, and do all kinds of stuff. We've got the
license to do that, and I don't think that most bands have that kind of
license precisely because they're bands. We're coming from a totally
different angle. We're coming from a musical fan type of thing-- Pandora's
box of tricks. If you ask us about films, I think we represent the Tarantino
school, where we're taking bits and pieces from other forms.
Tom: Let's not say "post-modern," but is it a new musical language based on
an ironic take on things?
Grant: Most definitely. It is not direct takes on things. It is more of
trying to capture the atmosphere of what the Clash might have been doing in
1981, or Gang of Four, or the Slits-- just coming out of punk and looking
for something fresh to do. They wanted to mix it with things that they grew
up with, like reggae and funk. I think Massive Attack represent this thing
where, especially in England, quite a lot of the immigrants came over in the
'50s. We were the offsprings of that. 3D's parents are Italian; Mushroom's
parents are American-West Indian; mine are from the West Indies, as well. We
all grew up together at school and we were all thrown into the pot together.
So a lot of white kids like reggae and R&B, and a lot of black kids like
punk, but in America it probably wasn't like that, because the communities
are larger and everyone stuck to their own.
Tom: It's changing.
Grant: It's changing now. You're getting Ice-T doing things with a metal
band and stuff like that.
Tom: How does Daddy G mellow out? What are you outside of Massive Attack?
Grant: Well, it's illegal, so I really shouldn't tell you, should I?
[Laughs] No, I'm still a DJ, so I'm completely consumed with buying records
and stuff like that. The other two look at things from more of the
production angle. My element has always been to look for the DJing or
samples, or a little noise off a record. I'm the guy who's got thousands and
thousands of records.
Tom: You're still shopping and beat digging.
Grant: I've been beat digging for years, and to be honest quite a lot of my
stuff is usually the inspiration for Massive Attack's records. 3D does quite
a lot of the lyrics, Mushroom brings his thing as well. 3D might start a
track a off with an idea on paper that he wants to put through with our
producer; and I may have some lyrics I want to put on it and some beats;
Mushroom might have some ideas for production....
Tom: How does that process work when you're working with a guest vocalist?
Grant: Usually, we pair the track first. With Liz [Elizabeth Frazer], we
actually had offered to give her some lyrics, but she just said no. She's
kind of shy and into her own thing. That's the reason why we used her--
because she is quite personal about her lyrics. We'd set the track up, cycle
it for hours, and leave her to do her thing. We'd come back, listen to it
and arrange it.
Tom: What do you want to get across to the young kid picking up Massive
Attack for the first time?
Grant: It's all about social comment. The thing with us is that we never
tried to be political, because it's too subtle to be political. People
change, and to say something one day is to regret the next day. We'd never
ever do that, but we still have our political views. It's all about social
comment and how you feel about you as a person with your relations with your
girlfriend and friends. You might be out at a club and you see something
happen, or you have some observation and you sort of rap about it. Horace's
[Andy] songs are all about personal relationships and are quite heartfelt.
Tom: Honesty with yourself?
Grant: Honesty with yourself, your relationships with friends and your
girlfriend, and how you feel about yourself sometimes-- rather than being
political.
Tom: What's your biggest political concern right now?
Grant: If we get together and talk about it, all of us share certain
beliefs. With some things, it would be crazy for us to try and agree about.
We can't even get on in the studio. Racism is one thing that pisses us all
off. With other things we could get deeper, but we'd have to sit around a
coffee table and smoke spliffs.
Tom: Have you consciously, in your music, tried to break down boundaries
with the intent of opening peoples' minds?
Grant: Most definitely. There is a vast array of songs on the album-- from
reggae-based to punk-influenced. The fact that we have license to go across
all that is brilliant. If you actually look at the band and then listen to
the music, you would never think that such a group would be making that
music.
Tom: Who are your favorite American artists currently?
Grant: I like Garbage, myself. 3D is on Radiohead. You can't get him off
that one. Mushroom is completely obsessed with rap artists. He loves Tribe
Called Quest and Q-Tip's production. I used to like Nirvana, really.
Tom: What about the Beastie Boys?
Grant: If we look at it honestly, they have to be one of the bands that has
influenced us from Day One. They were these crazy white dudes mixing their
styles with live elements, doing the whole thing right with production, and
taking on that whole black influence while still being themselves-- whereas
some other bands doing a similar thing come off like complete pricks. And
their music was hard. It was coming from the punky stuff as well.
Tom: And reggae. There is a similar mentality to yours, I'd say-- in the
willingness to take the early '80s influence of punk, and dub and hip-hop,
and say, "We're not going to define ourselves as one of these things and try
to copy it. We're going to create our own sound."
Grant: Sorry man. You really did enlighten me there. I really had forgot to
mention the Beasties. They are one of our favorite bands. We've loved the
Beasties for years. The way that they've actually strung their music
together, and the roughness of it, and the noncompromising attitude. That's
exactly what we represent in a way. That's one thing that we've always
wanted to do, to be honest-- one of our dreams is actually to tour with the
Beastie Boys.
Tom: That would be brilliant.