I'll make you a deal.  If you'll not send off topic posts anymore, then neither
will I.
If you are interested in the world's energy woes, read on.   Otherwise, skip
this post with my sincerest apologies.
If you want to reply, please do, but do it directly to me, not on the AJ list.
I'll go back to quietly lurking now.
Jim
At 04:29 PM 6/11/01 -0700, you wrote:
 >sorry for the continued grandstanding (well not that sorry I guess)... I 
just got this, and several people
 >showed interest before...
 >Tell them you want to reverse the 30% cut in funding for renewable energy 
projects, including the 48% cut in fuel >cell research.
Snip!!
Have you asked yourself the question, "Why has Bush cut R&D 
expenditures?"  I have.
Although I'm no energy expert, I came up with at least two possible 
explanations:
a) Bush, like all conservatives, hates us and wants us dependent on foreign 
oil forever.  He wants $7 per gallon gas.  He wants the economy in 
shambles.  He wants our kids to die of smog induced lung cancer.  He's evil.
b) For some reason I'm not aware of, it made sense to reduce the hydrogen 
fuels R&D expenditures.
I had some questions about hydrogen fuels.  So, I went to www.google.com 
and typed in "Hydrogen + Fuel + Research" to try to answer them.
My first question was, "What are hydrogen fuels and how would they be 
used?".  I found the answer at 
http://www.georgetown.edu/sfs/programs/stia/students/osgood.htm. Basically, 
hydrogen can be used in two ways to power an engine, directly as an 
expolsive fuel or, secondly, through electro-chemical conversion to 
electricity via a fuel cell.  The electricity can then be used to power an 
motor to do useful work, like move a car or turn on a light bulb or power a 
computer.
Second, "Where does hydrogen come from?".
See http://www.eren.doe.gov/consumerinfo/refbriefs/a109.html for a complete 
explanation, but to boil it down, from organic material.  Water, oil 
(yeppers, oil!), coal, decomposing vegatable matter and others.  The big 
problem is how to generate it economically, cleanly and safely.   You can't 
just pick up a lump of coal and magically have it turn into hydrogen.  And 
it sure won't go in the gas tank of your Volvo.
Third, "Why aren't we using it right now?".
The short answer is, because there aren't any hydrogen stations around the 
corner.  In other words, infrastructure.  Hydrogen is expensive, hazardous 
(remember the Hindenberg), and voluminous to transport and store.   Just 
one example, since it's lighter than air, how are you going to put it in 
your car?  Obviously, every last one of those gas stations out there will 
need to be converted.  Who's gonna pay for that? Federal tax dollars?  How 
long do you think it will take?
More, much more, than you wanted to know.
One of the first hits was a paper called "Blueprint for Hydrogen Fuel 
Infrastructure Development" by J. Ohi of the National Renewable Energy 
Laboratory.  The report details the findings of a project jointly sponsored 
by DOE, the California Air Resources Board (CARB), and the California 
Energy Commission (CEC) and conducted in 2000 under President Clinton's 
watch.  It made pretty interesting reading.  On page four you'll find this,
"The key finding of the workshop is encouraging: there are no technical 
showstoppers to implementing a near-term hydrogen fuel infrastructure for 
direct hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.There are, of course, engineering 
development needs as well as codes and standards and other institutional 
issues to resolve,but fundamentally the technologies required are 
available. Furthermore, representatives of both the energy and auto 
industries stated that they are technically capable of proceeding with 
developing both the fuel infrastructure and the vehicle technologies needed 
to meet near-term markets."
Bold text is his.  I read in this that the basic research is done.  The 
thrust of the report is that the current need is for infrastructure design 
and construction.  (You can see it for yourself at 
www.eren.doe.gov/hydrogen/pdfs/mp27770.pdf)  Also, note particularly the 
remark about the energy and auto industries.
Another: http://www.ohio.com/bj/business/2000/June/27/docs/011164.htm. To 
quote the article, ``We're a long ways off from fuel cells being 
economically feasible as a power source for automobiles,'' Smotkin said. 
``You have to re-form other fuels into hydrogen, and there's a lot of 
development still needed to make that economical.''
Again, the following two extracts from President Bush's energy proposal,
Cost For example, a Ford Crown Victoria that runs on compressed natural gas 
costs about $4,000 more than its gasoline counterpart.
Refueling Infrastructure Refueling infrastructure is limited, which can 
make refueling inconvenient and travel options difficult.
Travel Distance Ability to travel a long distance on a single volume of 
fuel. Alternative fuels have an energy content lower than that of gasoline, 
which means that AFVs cannot travel as far as traditional vehicles on a 
single tank of fuel.
• General Motors, Ford, Daimler Chrysler, Texaco, BP/Amoco, and Shell are 
collectively spending between $500 million and $1 billion dollars a year on 
fuel cells, hydrogen storage, and infrastructure development for passenger 
vehicles. Ongoing bus demonstrations in the United States and Europe are 
expected to commercialize fuel cell power hydrogen buses in the next five 
years.
Or, to quote another article, 
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010605/detu002.html,
The opportunity is alluring. Fuel cells (FC) offer a virtually pollution- 
free source of power, which has generated significant interest by a number 
of companies hoping to benefit from this opportunity. These companies are 
developing products for three broad markets: portable communications (e.g., 
laptop computers, cell phones); stationary (e.g., residential back-up, 
electric utility grid support, hospitals); and transportation (e.g., fork 
lift trucks, passenger vehicles, buses).
The most difficult among the 12 challenges are low-cost infrastructure, 
range and power density. Other challenges include cost reduction, component 
integration complexity and safety issues, to name a few.
Finally, to quote the original article that you posted, 
http://www.hfcletter.com/letter/may01/,
But the biggest winner in terms of percentage gains is clean coal 
technology, something which could be of benefit to hydrogen production and 
carbon dioxide emission reductions. Clean coal will r&d funding increase 
from the current measly $8.98 million to $82 million, a whopping 813.1%
The grand total budget request for the entire Energy Department increased 
slightly from the current $16.669 billion appropriation to a request for 
$19.213 billion. Details: DoE web site, http://www.energy.gov/.
In other words, President Bush has not cut one penny from the DOE 
budget.  He's increased it!!  Let me repeat that; THE DOE BUDGET WENT UP, 
NOT DOWN.  Instead, he's taking the limited amount of tax dollars at his 
disposal and transferring it to where it will do the most good!
My point is that the R&D for using hydrogen appears to be done or at least 
well within the abilities of industry.  What's needed now is the means of 
producing, transporting and storing hydrogen cleanly and safely.  Notice 
the clean coal research.  Know who has the most coal deposits in the entire 
world?  Yep, the good ol USA.  If you want to see lower costs and cleaner 
energy, clean coal research is the place to put your money.
One final point about how tax dollars are spent
If, as Vice President Chaney says, you could buy a hydrogen powered car for 
about $4,000 more than a gas powered car and drive it polution free for 
about the same as operating costs of gas, would you do it?   Yeah, me 
too.  So, the demand for hydrogen power is there.  If there is one thing 
you know, where there's demand some greedy capitalist will create the 
supply.  And that's exactly what's happening.
If you believe what you read in the financial news, 
http://www.h2fc.com/1News.html has hundreds of articles about the rosy 
future of investing in companies developing commercial hydrogen fueled 
vehicles, power plants and hydrogen production facilities.  Hundreds of 
them!  Why?   Because they see the potential profits to be made.
So back to the original question.  Why would anyone, including W. Bush, 
want to spend more tax dollars to develop hydrogen fuel cells when we can 
already do it?  Why not develop the infrastucture to get hydrogen to the 
cars?  And why spend tax dollars for that when so many companies and 
investors (me included) are more than willing to do it out of their own 
pockets?
Bottom line.  You're going to have hydrogen power in 4-8 years.  Even if 
the evil conservatives don't spend my tax money like you want them to.
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