Miroslav, Jason and list,
Though I really don't want to contribute to extending this
topic/conversation, I do feel it necessary to clarify some key things.
Firstly, I appreciate that this is a list where I can post my objections
without a load of people lashing out and calling me every name in the
book. It's the way it should be, but often isn't in this imperfect world
of ours.
Secondly, at no point did I say that Miroslav was condoning or
suggesting an approval of rape. I don't know the guy and would NEVER
suggest something like that (especially in a public forum), no way no
how, unless I knew it for fact or someone's words outright stated such.
I didn't post what I did in response to a single guy's post on this
topic, but to a number of them which became increasingly suggestive and
jokey while treading on very thin ice in relation to a totally serious
topic.
What I wrote (see below) was that joking about 'gang-bangs' is sexist
crap. I said nothing at all until there was the description/definition
of 'gang-bangs' as
"5 guys, a girl, and some cheap alcohol...maybe a camcorder, too."
I stand by my words that this is not funny. I also stand by my linking
this thought to rape....NOT saying Miroslav that you were aligning
yourself with such, but DEFINITELY saying that more often than not, this
is how 'gang-bang,' by the very definition you offered jokingly, is
understood (and, sadly, experienced) by many, many women. I hope you
hear/understand the difference. I appreciated your later post and words,
btw.
Jason, addressing more directly what you've said...yeah, sure, some
women are indeed into group sex. More power to them if that's what gets
them off....but I won't go into that 'cause it's more than off-topic and
'cause Philip might then have a point in reducing this issue to being a
'group sex' thang ;-) Main point is, 'gang-bang' as a term is rarely
used to describe something fun and consensual. It generally implies a
power imbalance and abuse, particularly with the scenario/joke that
triggered my response (1 woman, 5 guys, cheap alcohol and a camcorder).
Two very different things.
I did think the issue itself was serious enough to warrant a
clarification and wanted to make clear that my initial response was FAR
from a personal attack, but rather a request to the list as a whole.
'nuff on this from me. Thanks for reading and not being a totally
reactive bunch. Hope some heads out there get what I'm saying and why
I'm saying it. Back to the music....
-db-
NP: Beatless 'Life Mirrors' (Ubiquity)
Four Tet 'Pause' (Domino)
4 Hero 'Creating Patterns' (Talkin' Loud)
Abdullah Ibrahim 'Ekaya' (Ekapa)
Rae & Christian 'Another Late Night' (Kinetic)
Miles Davis 'Big Fun' (Columbia)
V/A: 'Nigeria 70' (Afro Strut)
Tenth & Parker 'Twenty Twelve' (Disorient)
V/A: 'Darker Than Blue' (Blood + Fire)
New Sector Movements 'Download This' (Main Squeeze/People/Virgin)
Deep Sensation "Soul Heaven" 12" (Guidance)
(and loads of other soulful, jazzy, happiness-inducing gems. we
especially need'em at a time like this!)
"miroslav." wrote:
> I can see how that was offensive, and I will put a
> stop to it henceforth.
>
> One thing I will say in my defense: I didn't say
> *ANYTHING* about rape or any other words to create
> implications of unconsensual sexual behavior in my
> comment. To be honest, it hadn't even cross my mind
> when I wrote that (not much did). While my comment
> was sexist and immature...I insist on making it 100%
> clear that my motivations and principles are such that
> do NOT in any way shape or form approve of or take
> lightly the concept of someone actually being raped.
> Sometimes I'm stupid...but I don't deserve to be
> labeled as morally aligned with evil or cruelty.
>
> I'm done. I'm sorry.
>
> miroslav.
>
and Jason Witherspoon wrote:
> I agree it's an "offensive topic" which we need not discuss.
>
> I do however, feel for the fellow(s) said to be condoning or making light
> of *rape* for having brought it up/discussed it.
>
> That's a very, very serious personal attack which I do not feel was
> justified under the circumstances.
>
> I realize I come from San Francisco, yadda yadda, but I've personally met
> female non-porn stars who've organized such events for themselves. Well,
> one anyway, & heard tell of several others.
>
> They certainly weren't trying to break any records (we're talking small
> scale), but neither were they planning auto-mass-rape.
>
> -- Denise Benson <mentalchatter@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > hey guys,
> >
> > Can we put an end to this one? Sitting through a
> > few, thinly veiled
> > references to j/o's is tolerable even if not
> > preferred (you boys and
> > your toys), but this 'gang bang' thing is pure
> > sexist bullshit. The
> > words hold nothing of any humour for most women.
> > Gee, surprise, most
> > women don't find rape (or the camcorder taping
> > thereof) funny. Thank you
> > for your consideration.
> >
> > -db-
> >
> > "miroslav." wrote:
> >
> > > "gang" itself would refer to a group of thugs, but
> > > "gang-bang" does actually mean the same thing here
> > in
> > > America as it does there...namely 5 guys, a girl,
> > and
> > > some cheap alcohol...maybe a camcorder, too. I
> > know
> > > its wrong, but that part about the circus chimps
> > is
> > > funny...
> > >
> > > > The most interesting phrase that means different
> > > > things in different places
> > > > is 'gang-bang', which in America refers to a
> > group
> > > > of thugs or louts but in
> > > > the UK means something completely different!
> > > >
> > > > Carl
-- -denise benson-RADIO + CLUB DJ: Mental Chatter ï Mondays 11am-2pm, CKLN 88.1FM (Toronto) http://ckln.sac.ryerson.ca ï Archives: http://www.beats.to Glide ï Wednesdays @ Gypsy Co-op, 817 Queen St. W.
WRITER: Eye Weekly ï 'Extended Play' and 'Beats Per Week' ï http://www.eye.net Exclaim Magazine ï features & reviews ï http://www.exclaim.ca
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