Re: Acid Jazz Never Really Existed, Was Re:Acid Jazz Dead?

From: Mark Allerton (Mark@warmspot.cix.co.uk)
Date: Mon May 13 2002 - 01:58:49 CEST

  • Next message: Tom Giles: "Re: P'taah"

    You see... an Oxford education really _is_ worth something :-)

    Nice post Tom. You've pretty much summarized the conclusion I've
    come to every previous time that we've had a debate about the term
    "acid-jazz" on this list in the past 10 years, but rather more
    eloquently than I've ever managed.

    ..Mark..
    On Sunday, May 12, 2002, at 03:58 PM, Tom Giles wrote:

    > Dear list,
    >
    > I read with interest everbody's opinions on what Acid-Jazz is, or
    > was. Some say it was an era; some say a marketing term, or a
    > term of journalism; other say it refers to pieces of music with
    > certain characteristics; others still say it refers to particular
    > bands.
    > I think that both all and none of you are correct. I don't mean to
    > upset anyone, or provoke a flame-war, but the simple fact is this:
    > we all want, if not need, to talk about music, and to do so we need
    > general nouns. Acid Jazz is just a general noun that we need to
    > use to make it possible to speak about music; however this does
    > not imply that it has specific meaning, in the sense that every
    > piece of music to which it applies must have certain characteristics
    > (like being made in a certain era, or release on a certain label, etc.,
    > etc.) For every person what pieces of music they count as acid-
    > jazz will differ, but there is some common core we agree on (this
    > must be true, otherwise saying of a piece of music that it is acid
    > jazz would be meaningless). But this common core is impossible
    > to describe in strict terms; being of a particular style is like a
    > family
    > resemblace amongst bits of music. Let me explain:
    >
    > If somebody asks me "what kind of music do you like?" and i reply
    > "I like Herbert and Recloose and Blaze and ...." (lets say i list a
    > large number of house artists) they will not understand me very
    > clearly, unless they know who all these people are. But if i say I
    > like house then they have at least some idea of what i like even if
    > they do not know music about house music. Their idea may be
    > rather inaccurate, depending on their knowledge, but it will do the
    > job. Secondly it is simply not practical to give a list of artists,
    > songs or lps, in every sentence where one generic, if inaccurate
    > term, would do. General musical nouns are thus necessary for us
    > to talk about music.
    > Thirdly it enables some analysis of music and its history; however
    > this must be essentially vague. We can compare for instance
    > 'house' and 'techno'; we might say techno is *generally* faster than
    > house, but of course you will all be able to come up with thousands
    > of examples to refute such a claim. The claim, however, is not
    > necessarily refuted like this, but we get into murky analytical
    > waters here. Nevertheless general musical nouns signify a kind of
    > 'family resemblance' between those songs or artists to which they
    > apply. Clearly not every house tune is the same, and there is not
    > one single property that each such tune shares; but each tune we
    > call house, say, be it Armand van Heldan or the Micronauts, are as
    > much related as an extended family.
    >
    > I am sure it is clear to everybody that we need general nouns to
    > describe music for the above reasons, and countless more.
    > Further, given the discussion in this thread, it should also be clear
    > that from saying song X is acid-jazz, or such like, there is only a
    > certain amount we say, hence all the confusion about whether acid-
    > jazz is dead. What we can say is that acid-jazz is almost dead in
    > the sense that as a general noun it is not used very much to
    > describe music any more, the trendy buzzword 'nu-jazz' seems to
    > have usurped it. This is not to claim that nu-jazz is very different
    > from acid-jazz or though there are some elementary differences,
    > like the fact that nobody would call any old Snowbody albums 'nu-
    > jazz' say. Neither is this to claim that acid-jazz as a term might
    > not come back to life. If we all start using it to apply to 'nu-jazz'
    > and suchlike, acid-jazz will be reborn. (What I mean here is that if
    > we use it to apply to music like that commonly associated with the
    > term, but not often referred to as acid-jazz, then it will be reborn.
    > We can't just go calling *anything* acid jazz!)
    >
    > In other respects acid-jazz is very much alive. The debates on this
    > list testify to that. It has also become apparent from the
    > discussion that much of what we debate on this list may be called
    > acid-jazz since it shares so many similarities with "classic" acid-
    > jazz (Incognito, Gilles Peterson in '89, or whatever you think i might
    > mean). DJs still play loads of tunes that got played during the
    > height of the usage of the term 'acid-jazz' (partly because loads of
    > them were made in the sixties and seventies long before anybody
    > called anything acid-jazz).
    >
    > Hopefully this explains my view, and hopefully it hasn't bored you
    > all too much(!). Words like acid-jazz, disco, hard bop, or whatever,
    > are essential to discussions of music. However they can also
    > hamper them because people take them as literally being able to
    > describe every feature of the particular pieces of music to which
    > they apply. In this respect general musical nouns differ completely
    > from many other general nouns like 'cow', 'gold', 'sulphuric acid' etc.
    > If you pardon the pun, there is no litmus test for whether a piece of
    > music is acid jazz, or any other kind of music for that matter.
    >
    > And we'll leave it on that note (if you'll excuse the further pun),
    > Tom
    >
    >



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