Re: Jazz V. Disco; the showdown

From: Lynne d Johnson (ldj00@earthlink.net)
Date: Tue May 14 2002 - 23:03:32 CEST

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    hmm...was hamilton bohanan disco or funk?

    it was very electro funk
    probably disco
    he wasn't a white guy

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    From: "Dr. Axel Barcelo Aspeitia -- Investigador"
    <abarcelo@minerva.filosoficas.unam.mx>
    Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:34:21 -0500 (CDT)
    To: Steven Catanzaro <stevencatanzaro@sprintmail.com>
    Cc: ACIDJAZZ <acid-jazz@ucsd.edu>
    Subject: Re: Jazz V. Disco; the showdown

    Steve, you are soooo right. I remember reading once Jane Child (remember
    her?) saying that Disco was what happened when white guys tried making
    funk, and I do not think she was way off the mark. Disco is different from
    Funk in many ways, one of them being the huge difference mentioned by
    Steve. I would gice the credit (or put the blame) on Girogio Moroder who
    was such a control freak but made beautiful 'compositions'. He was also
    one of the first using sequencer to get that super-controlled vibe on his
    productions. Kudos to the man, in the name of one of those guys in front
    of computers Steve mentions in his post!

    Dr. Axel Arturo Barcelo Aspeitia

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    On Tue, 14 May 2002, Steven Catanzaro wrote:

    > Personally, I see a major line that can be applied to most developments in
    music for the last 75 or 80 years or so.
    >
    > The demarcation point that I'll stress is *improvisation* vs. *composition.*
    >
    > In improvised music, the structure of the piece, if any, exists only to
    support what the performers are going to make up on the spot. This leads to
    alot of spontaneity, as well as many "mistakes" being made in the music,
    i.e., phrases, rhythms, and harmonies that a person might not have come up
    with if they sat down and thought better about it.
    >
    > In composed music, all such "mistakes" are ironed out in advance. An
    arrangement is thought up, it is rehearsed or perfected until it is fully
    realized, and then it is recorded and/or performed. (Alternately, an idea
    that is initially improvised is then refined and polished ad nauseum, until
    the finished product is released to the public.)
    >
    > So, on the one hand, you've got the albums made by Thelonious Monk for
    Prestige in the 50's, and they're all sloppy and fabulous.
    >
    > On the other, you've got the disco of the Brothers Johnson, or Donna Summer,
    in which, as one AJ contributer notes, each *drum* of the drum kit was
    tracked seperately. Now THAT takes planning. Meticulous and perfect (and
    fabulous too!)
    >
    > Acid Jazz, or Soul Jazz, is firmly in the first tradition. Much of disco,
    pop, album rock, as well as classical music etc. is in the second tradition,
    and I would say that a LOT of the music talked about on this list in the
    last 4 or 5 years falls firmly in the second tradition.
    >
    > After all, the vast majority of it is made by anal males sitting in front of
    computers or various other bits of late 20th century electro-technology
    created to micromanage audio files. Similarly, you're not going to hear alot
    of the first tradition in B. Spears, N.E.R.D., or the rap of Lil' Kim and
    etc. (And in fact, the demarcation line in em-ceeing is whether you can
    "freestyle" it or not.)
    >
    > But do we say the one tradition is "dead" because the other is a bit more
    prominent at the moment? No. The great thing about it is even though jazz
    has always been about improvisation, the 2 traditions co-exist,
    cross-polinate, and oft-times intermingle.
    >
    > I find myself attracted to artists who are able to blend both traditions, or
    at least if they're firmly in tradition 2, they are creative enough to
    convey the sense of spontanaeity found in tradition 1.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



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