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I hear you steve
my argument is not against capitalism
i want my artists to get paid
paid in full
without a doubt
i just want people to be more critical about what they listen to
that ashanti outsold tweet and celine is amazing
and not that i think the other two are so great
her debut just really showed me something about the average music listener
and this is something i figured out once mtv came along
image is everything
and nowadays, who you roll with (your click) makes a difference
the girl child blew up only b/c of what she had already done with ja rule
and with fat joe
do you really call what she is doing singing?
can so do what whitney, jill, or mary can do?
the girl's success rides off of her connection to ja rule and his camp
cam'ron has done better now that he is with jay-z's camp
anything the neptunes touch is solid
i'm sure you get my point
hip hoppers go around shouting about keeping it real
but as marv already mentioned
what is real about ashanti?
now i am not hating on the girl
but do you really think she'll hit that big the second time around?
truth be told
i am extremely surprised by how much the masses like tweet and truth hurts
it is a different type of r&b is it not?
and in many ways it is the same thing...
:: info ::
Lynne d Johnson
c :: 347.693.9669
e :: lynne@lynnedjohnson.com
w :: http://www.lynnedjohnson.com
From: "Steven Catanzaro" <stevencatanzaro@sprintmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:59:50 -0700
To: <acid-jazz@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: Negative music.../ Positive Solutions
>
> I think what needs to happen to salvage popular music is the dismantling
of the
> corporate structure and/or capitalism as we know it, combined with the
> reinvigoration of the education system with a special and passionate
emphasis on
> the arts (I'm thinking capoeira in gym class, and I'm not kidding), and
i'm sure
> some wealth redistribution and restructuring of the moral fabric such that
money
> takes the back seat, wouldn't hurt, but file sharing, internet radio and
> burnable CDs are a good start.
You know, there's a lot of "blah-blah" going on about "positive" music vs.
"negative" music, about the "cool" underground and the vapid "mainstream"
but on closer examination, it all seems kind of silly to me.
Case in point: Take a look at Macy Gray. When her first album was released,
it was called the "Record of the Year" by none other than Straight No
Chaser. They said it was so wierd it would either sell 20 copies or 20,000.
Now, I love Macy, and I love SNC, and 20,000 would be a decent figure by
underground standards. Fact is, it sold 6 million, and nothing about Macy
can now be said to be "underground." Do you think her next album was
reviewed in Straight No Chaser?
What I see is a lot poesurs who won't be caught dead playing anything that
the mainstream might actually "like" because that would insinuate that you
too are part of the great unwashed mainstream. But I can name alot of
artists who got too big for the underground, and in some cases, that was the
underground's fault, not the artists.
Look at MMW. When they were putzing around the country in a van, they were
underground darlings. Now that they're on the cover of every jazz magazine,
and everybody wants to know what kind of strings and drumskins they use,
it's a different type of a thing. Not from the general public, who now
enables them to sell out big shows, but from the "underground."
Ditto Jill Scott. She's an "underground" artist? Mos Def is "underground?"
The Roots "underground?"
Those are hi-profile artists who sell millions of copies and make good music
too. Do you think *they* want to see the "end of capitalism as we know it"
and a proliferation of "file sharing, internet radio, and burnable CD's?"
To cite another phrase made popular by the "ghetto fabulous" set; "stop
playa hatin!"
In fact, the kind of utopian sentiment cited above is precisely NOT the way
to get your music heard. Yeah, you can cry "evil capitalism, bad Geo. Bush,
horrible music companies, cruel world....." all you want. But I'll give you
a better way;
Go out and produce the hottest shows, the hottest club nites, you can, with
the best graphics, the nicest venue, the hippest sound system, etc., that
you can provide. Don't just give the people what you think they "need' but
give them what they want as well. I mean, get serious; are you
undergrounders saying that every track Roots Manuva ever made is better than
every track Jay Zee ever made, on the basis that far fewer US citizens have
heard of Roots Manuva? Can't you play both?!?
(And as for capitalism being the root of all evil... I don't know for
sure... but I have a hunch you might have more club nite options in an evil
capitalist den like NYC or LA than, I dunno, Bejing, for instance?)
In fact, read the SNC 4 Hero article from Winter; the "inverted snobbery"
that attaches itself to artists like Massive Attack, Tricky, Bjork, and 4
Hero. Listen to what Dego himself says. Do you think he wants to be
"underground?" Or do you think he wants to take it to the streets and get
larger and larger? Yes, the apparatus is in the way, and it frustrates him,
but that's why we have to quit whining and create our own apparatus!
As Duke Ellington, who was a great musician and a great capitalist once
said, "When I was younger, an older singer told me don't forget to tip well,
'cuz remember, we all work for tips."
When people come out to your club nite, you're providing a service to them.
Telling them to hold their nose and take the castor oil you've got for 'em
is not the way to get them to dig your New Sector Movements trax...
If people want to get preached to, I suspect they'll go to church. Give 'em
a bit of this, and a bit of that, and quit knee-jerking with "Oh, this has
to suck, cuz I saw them on the cover of Vibe..."
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Negative music.../ Positive Solutions</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BR>
I hear you steve<BR>
my argument is not against capitalism<BR>
i want my artists to get paid<BR>
paid in full<BR>
without a doubt<BR>
i just want people to be more critical about what they listen to<BR>
<BR>
that ashanti outsold tweet and celine is amazing<BR>
and not that i think the other two are so great<BR>
her debut just really showed me something about the average music listener<=
BR>
and this is something i figured out once mtv came along<BR>
image is everything<BR>
and nowadays, who you roll with (your click) makes a difference<BR>
the girl child blew up only b/c of what she had already done with ja rule a=
nd with fat joe<BR>
do you really call what she is doing singing?<BR>
can so do what whitney, jill, or mary can do?<BR>
the girl's success rides off of her connection to ja rule and his camp<BR>
<BR>
cam'ron has done better now that he is with jay-z's camp<BR>
<BR>
anything the neptunes touch is solid<BR>
<BR>
i'm sure you get my point<BR>
<BR>
hip hoppers go around shouting about keeping it real<BR>
but as marv already mentioned <BR>
what is real about ashanti?<BR>
now i am not hating on the girl<BR>
<BR>
but do you really think she'll hit that big the second time around?<BR>
<BR>
truth be told<BR>
i am extremely surprised by how much the masses like tweet and truth hurts<=
BR>
it is a different type of r&b is it not?<BR>
and in many ways it is the same thing...<BR>
<BR>
:: info ::<BR>
Lynne d Johnson<BR>
c :: 347.693.9669<BR>
e :: lynne@lynnedjohnson.com <BR>
w :: http://www.lynnedjohnson.com <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<B>From: </B>"Steven Catanzaro" <stevencatanzaro@sprintmail.co=
m><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Wed, 29 May 2002 16:59:50 -0700<BR>
<B>To: </B><acid-jazz@ucsd.edu><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: Negative music.../ Positive Solutions<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>><BR>
> I think what needs to happen to salvage popular music is the dismantli=
ng<BR>
of the<BR>
> corporate structure and/or capitalism as we know it, combined with the=
<BR>
> reinvigoration of the education system with a special and passionate<B=
R>
emphasis on<BR>
> the arts (I'm thinking capoeira in gym class, and I'm not kidding), an=
d<BR>
i'm sure<BR>
> some wealth redistribution and restructuring of the moral fabric such =
that<BR>
money<BR>
> takes the back seat, wouldn't hurt, but file sharing, internet radio a=
nd<BR>
> burnable CDs are a good start.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You know, there's a lot of "blah-blah" going on about "posit=
ive" music vs.<BR>
"negative" music, about the "cool" underground and the =
vapid "mainstream"<BR>
but on closer examination, it all seems kind of silly to me.<BR>
<BR>
Case in point: Take a look at Macy Gray. When her first album was released,=
<BR>
it was called the "Record of the Year" by none other than Straigh=
t No<BR>
Chaser. They said it was so wierd it would either sell 20 copies or 20,000.=
<BR>
<BR>
Now, I love Macy, and I love SNC, and 20,000 would be a decent figure by<BR=
>
underground standards. Fact is, it sold 6 million, and nothing about Macy<B=
R>
can now be said to be "underground." Do you think her next album =
was<BR>
reviewed in Straight No Chaser?<BR>
<BR>
What I see is a lot poesurs who won't be caught dead playing anything that<=
BR>
the mainstream might actually "like" because that would insinuate=
that you<BR>
too are part of the great unwashed mainstream. But I can name alot of<BR>
artists who got too big for the underground, and in some cases, that was th=
e<BR>
underground's fault, not the artists.<BR>
<BR>
Look at MMW. When they were putzing around the country in a van, they were<=
BR>
underground darlings. Now that they're on the cover of every jazz magazine,=
<BR>
and everybody wants to know what kind of strings and drumskins they use,<BR=
>
it's a different type of a thing. Not from the general public, who now<BR>
enables them to sell out big shows, but from the "underground."<B=
R>
<BR>
Ditto Jill Scott. She's an "underground" artist? Mos Def is "=
;underground?"<BR>
The Roots "underground?"<BR>
<BR>
Those are hi-profile artists who sell millions of copies and make good musi=
c<BR>
too. Do you think *they* want to see the "end of capitalism as we know=
it"<BR>
and a proliferation of "file sharing, internet radio, and burnable CD'=
s?"<BR>
<BR>
To cite another phrase made popular by the "ghetto fabulous" set;=
"stop<BR>
playa hatin!"<BR>
<BR>
In fact, the kind of utopian sentiment cited above is precisely NOT the way=
<BR>
to get your music heard. Yeah, you can cry "evil capitalism, bad Geo. =
Bush,<BR>
horrible music companies, cruel world....." all you want. But I'll giv=
e you<BR>
a better way;<BR>
<BR>
Go out and produce the hottest shows, the hottest club nites, you can, with=
<BR>
the best graphics, the nicest venue, the hippest sound system, etc., that<B=
R>
you can provide. Don't just give the people what you think they "need'=
but<BR>
give them what they want as well. I mean, get serious; are you<BR>
undergrounders saying that every track Roots Manuva ever made is better tha=
n<BR>
every track Jay Zee ever made, on the basis that far fewer US citizens have=
<BR>
heard of Roots Manuva? Can't you play both?!?<BR>
<BR>
(And as for capitalism being the root of all evil... I don't know for<BR>
sure... but I have a hunch you might have more club nite options in an evil=
<BR>
capitalist den like NYC or LA than, I dunno, Bejing, for instance?)<BR>
<BR>
In fact, read the SNC 4 Hero article from Winter; the "inverted snobbe=
ry"<BR>
that attaches itself to artists like Massive Attack, Tricky, Bjork, and 4<B=
R>
Hero. Listen to what Dego himself says. Do you think he wants to be<BR>
"underground?" Or do you think he wants to take it to the streets=
and get<BR>
larger and larger? Yes, the apparatus is in the way, and it frustrates him,=
<BR>
but that's why we have to quit whining and create our own apparatus!<BR>
<BR>
As Duke Ellington, who was a great musician and a great capitalist once<BR>
said, "When I was younger, an older singer told me don't forget to tip=
well,<BR>
'cuz remember, we all work for tips."<BR>
<BR>
When people come out to your club nite, you're providing a service to them.=
<BR>
Telling them to hold their nose and take the castor oil you've got for 'em<=
BR>
is not the way to get them to dig your New Sector Movements trax...<BR>
<BR>
If people want to get preached to, I suspect they'll go to church. Give 'em=
<BR>
a bit of this, and a bit of that, and quit knee-jerking with "Oh, this=
has<BR>
to suck, cuz I saw them on the cover of Vibe..."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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