[acid-jazz] FW: Euphonic digest, Vol 1 #369 - 8 msgs

From: J-Justice (jason_at_suntzusound.com)
Date: 2003-04-19 21:05:55

  • Next message: J-Justice: "Re: [acid-jazz] FW: Euphonic digest, Vol 1 #369 - 8 msgs"

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    From: euphonic-request_at_f4.ca
    Reply-To: euphonic_at_f4.ca
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:09:00 -0700
    To: euphonic_at_f4.ca
    Subject: Euphonic digest, Vol 1 #369 - 8 msgs

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    Today's Topics:

       1. RE: Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey! (Mr. Bob Hansen)
       2. Re: Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey! (Michael Antonia)
       3. Re: Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey! (Michael Antonia)
       4. Re: Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey! (Steven Severin)
       5. Re: Matt has some good points... (Steve Silvers)
       6. RE: Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey! (Mr. Bob Hansen)
       7. Re: Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey! (Matt Corwine)
       8. Re: Matt has some good points... (Seatown Jungle)

    --__--__--

    Message: 1
    From: "Mr. Bob Hansen" <bob_at_squid-records.com>
    To: <euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx>
    Subject: RE: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:22:11 -0700

    > I know a lot of people who would gladly pay $5-$10
    > to go out from 9PM - 11:30PM on a weeknight if they
    > knew they'd be able to catch the main acts.

    Oh my god. This is SO damn brilliant it hurts!! Can somebody PLEASE
    start doing this? Early weeknight electronic shows. I'm all over it.

    --__--__--

    Message: 2
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:30:01 -0500
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    From: Michael Antonia <michael_at_thebalticroom.com>
    To: Matt Corwine <mcorwine_at_speakeasy.org>,
     "Euphonic_at_f4.ca" <Euphonic_at_f4.ca>

    amen, matt.
    I think that there are a lot of people who think this business is a
    cakewalk... That you find an artist's contact info on the web, fly him out
    and your gonna be a boller. I think it is this attitude that over saturates
    the market and makes it very difficult to work with revolutionary yet
    relatively unknown artists, which is why I think we are all in this. Another
    problem I see is raves, now raves can be great! For what it is (or at least
    was) it is a very cool concept... However, rave promoters are willing to pay
    whatever it takes, this has made agents and artists around the globe
    extremely greedy. We all need to start negotiating MORE, and paying less. If
    we ALL say "your asking too much" they will have to come down. This is NOT
    LA or NY! I think that those of us around who have been doing this for
    awhile have our guards up because we don't want the next guy, or the newest
    promoter on the block to get the show. But you know what, let them lose a
    couple grand due to lack of knowledge or history, bet they won't want that
    show next time, and I bet the artist goes back to that agent and reports
    that the promoter was wack.

    All of this is meaningless if nobody shows up to the show... Why are we part
    of this world if not to support good music? I hear a lot of excuses from
    promoters, "it's the war!" or "there was a show at Re-Bar that night" or "it
    rained" or "it was too hot" NO, you know what it is? It is a tired fan base.
    I was speaking to Gabe Rene from Aquanote last week, and he was telling me
    that he became so bored with the house crowd that all he does now is play
    hip hop parties in lounges... He is on fucking Naked music and his set here
    was the first time he played electronic music in over a year! This speaks
    volumes to me... I love electronic music, but the scene is becoming very
    stale, the music keeps getting better and better and the crowds keep getting
    smaller and smaller? hmmmmmmm. -MICHAEL

    on 4/18/03 2:31 PM, Matt Corwine at mcorwine_at_speakeasy.org wrote:

    > this is a tough one. this is the kind of discussion for which we ought to
    > be using euphonic a lot more. i have a lot of random unfocused ideas on
    > this, having spent a long time on every side of this table, from random
    > clubgoer to promoter to artist to journalist...
    >
    > michael makes a good point about the support of the fans -- i think that's
    > a big part of the problem. part of it is fans who stay home and chill
    > rather than head out to the show, and the other part is that a lot of the
    > fans already consider themselves part of the hipster class and don't expect
    > to pay even when the promoter is taking a risk. that's the catch about
    > doing shows here - the crowd here is not tiny but it's small enough that if
    > you bring in an artist who's well-known but niche, most of your audience
    > are the type that would expect to get in free anyway. (i'm guilty of this
    > myself -- i try to support by writing about the shows / artists i like, but
    > print publicity doesn't make as much of a difference as journalists think
    > it does. so when i can afford it and when i believe in what the show's
    > about, i pay my share when the club's not rammed and do my alcoholist best
    > to bump up the bar's take.) is greed the problem?
    >
    > i think a lot of it comes down to communication and promotion, but not in
    > the ways most of us are used to. carey has a good point about radio - kexp
    > really does reach people and their support makes a big difference.
    > dropping flyers at record stores and spamming promoter lists isn't
    > effective. even hand-to-hand street promotion only works if you've got
    > other kinds of wood behind that arrow. building hype about something takes
    > more than just telling lots of people about your shows and then making them
    > feel bad when they don't show up. is sloppy promotion the problem?
    >
    > but bob also touches on a more uncomfortable truth - that dance music as we
    > know it might not be as interesting or popular around here as we think it
    > is. we have a glut of talent and nights here but a drought of everyday
    > punters - most of the house nights i check out are (sparsely) populated by
    > DJs, promoters and their friends. it's a nice social scene but it's
    > unsustainable. is that the problem?
    >
    > i used to joke that we should institute a fee structure for house music --
    > you want to be a DJ? $500 please, we'll donate it to charity. want to
    > throw a night? $2,000. cash or charge? maybe if there were more barriers
    > to entry people would get a little more focused. :-)
    >
    > At 11:55 AM 4/18/2003 -0700, Mr. Bob Hansen wrote:
    >> Weeknight shit IS pretty tough to do these days. A lot of people I know
    >> just seem really tired and broke and busy and kinda stressed...makes it
    >> tough to stay out late on a school night.
    >>
    >> I've been to quite a few (ok, a couple) non-dance shows recently and
    >> they've been pretty packed. Food for thought....it's not JUST the
    >> economy, I think.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: euphonic-admin_at_f4.ca [mailto:euphonic-admin_at_f4.ca] On Behalf Of
    >> iamgreg_at_ziplip.com
    >> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:42 AM
    >> To: euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx
    >> Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    >>
    >> I didn't make it out just because I'm broke. Bad excuse, I know.
    >> Sami's pics showed the men on stage and an empty lounge? What's up?!
    >> Is it difficult to set these would-be-flooded nights up for the weekend?
    >> .greg.
    >>
    >>> -----Original Message-----
    >>> From: Paul Edwards [mailto:paul_at_gongfan.com]
    >>> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003, 11:27 AM
    >>> To: euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx
    >>> Subject: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ----- Original Message -----
    >>> From: "Steven Severin" <thechimp43_at_hotmail.com>
    >>> To: <paul_at_gongfan.com>; <steven_at_chopsuey.com>
    >>> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 10:53 AM
    >>> Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I did. Unfortunately I was extremely sick last night and missed it.
    >> Not
    >>> a
    >>>> stronger crowd? Where was everybody? I haven't made it to work yet
    >> to
    >>> see
    >>>> how it did. Come on, let's hear where you were at. Many of you on
    >> this
    >>>> list said we should bring out Stewart Walker. It makes it that much
    >>> harder
    >>>> to bring out people of his kind if you don't come out and support.
    >> I'm
    >>> just
    >>>> saying...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Steven Severin
    >>>> Chop Suey
    >>>> Talent Buyer/Promotions
    >>>> Ph: 206-324-6628
    >>>> Fx: 206-324-6876
    >>>> http://www.chopsuey.com
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> From: "Paul Edwards" <paul_at_gongfan.com>
    >>>> To: <steven_at_chopsuey.com>
    >>>> Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    >>>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:14:53 -0700
    >>>>
    >>>> Hi Steven,
    >>>>
    >>>> Who organized this show? It was a good one, I am sorry that there
    >> wasn't
    >>> a
    >>>> stronger crowd.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> ----- Original Message -----
    >>>> From: "Steven Severin" <thechimp43_at_hotmail.com>
    >>>> To: <euphonic_at_ffwd.cx>
    >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 4:18 PM
    >>>> Subject: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Stewart Walker, Gregory Schiff, and Codebase tonight!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> $10 ad 9 pm doors.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Come one, come all.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Enjoy!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Steven Severin
    >>>>> Chop Suey
    >>>>> Talent Buyer/Promotions
    >>>>> Ph: 206-324-6628
    >>>>> Fx: 206-324-6876
    >>>>> http://www.chopsuey.com
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> _________________________________________________________________
    >>>>> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
    >>>>> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>>> Euphonic mailing list
    >>>>> Euphonic_at_f4.ca
    >>>>> http://lists.f4.ca/mailman/listinfo/euphonic
    >>>>>
    >>>>> F4 Internet Project :: http://www.f4.ca
    >>>>> Web hosting only $120/year <info_at_f4.ca>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> _________________________________________________________________
    >>>> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> _______________________________________________
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    >
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    >

    --__--__--

    Message: 3
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:36:42 -0500
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    From: Michael Antonia <michael_at_thebalticroom.com>
    To: "Mr. Bob Hansen" <bob_at_squid-records.com>,
     <euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx>

    I'll try it but you fuckers better come... One problem from the clubs
    perspective is, since you can stay open until 2, if you close at 12 you lose
    $$. now, I know if there is no one there between 12 and 2 anyway what is the
    difference? well this isn't as easy for a club owner to see. Steven does a
    lot of early shows... It doesn't seem to affect that much does it?

    on 4/18/03 3:22 PM, Mr. Bob Hansen at bob_at_squid-records.com wrote:

    >> I know a lot of people who would gladly pay $5-$10
    >> to go out from 9PM - 11:30PM on a weeknight if they
    >> knew they'd be able to catch the main acts.
    >
    > Oh my god. This is SO damn brilliant it hurts!! Can somebody PLEASE
    > start doing this? Early weeknight electronic shows. I'm all over it.
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > Euphonic mailing list
    > Euphonic_at_f4.ca
    > http://lists.f4.ca/mailman/listinfo/euphonic
    >
    > F4 Internet Project :: http://www.f4.ca
    > Web hosting only $120/year <info_at_f4.ca>
    >
    >

    --__--__--

    Message: 4
    Reply-To: steven_at_chopsuey.com
    From: "Steven Severin" <thechimp43_at_hotmail.com>
    To: cid_at_glitchpop.net, fortunekiki_at_covad.net
    Cc: euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:36:08 -0700

    I'm going to make one final response and then move on. When people tour,
    you can't always tell them that you need that Friday or Saturday especially
    with DJ's. They fly all around the world all the time. When we (and I
    speak for all promoters on this list) bring a show to town, we put out a lot
    of money and a lot of work to provide entertainment to the community. A lot
    of times, it's pretty specific niches that we try to hit. If those niches
    don't come out to the shows for whatever reasons, then we will not bring
    those types of artists back. It's pretty simple. Do remember that WE put
    in a lot of work to provide fun things for people to do in Seattle. I don't
    buy the thing that people won't come out on the weekend. If it's a big
    enough artist, people come out. We sell out quite often on Tuesdays. In a
    way this is preaching to the choir a bit, but a lot of the people on this
    list are promoters and understand how important it is to support your scene
    or there won't be a scene to support. If you have further things to
    discuss, please feel free to email me privately. I have a ton of shows that
    I need to book.

    Enjoy life. You only get one...

    Steven Severin
    Chop Suey
    Talent Buyer/Promotions
    Ph: 206-324-6628
    Fx: 206-324-6876
    http://www.chopsuey.com

    From: cid <cid_at_glitchpop.net>
    To: Kiki Ajidarma <fortunekiki_at_covad.net>
    CC: "euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx" <euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx>
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:59:44 -0700 (PDT)

    I like going out on weeknights - I think the solution is to put the main
    acts on
    at 10 or 11 PM so that people who have to work in the morning can still get
    out
    and enjoy the show. I know a lot of people who would gladly pay $5-$10 to go
    out
    from 9PM - 11:30PM on a weeknight if they knew they'd be able to catch the
    main
    acts.

    cid.

    On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Kiki Ajidarma wrote:

    > the most complain i got is that throwing something on weeknights is not
    > enough people showed up.
    > throwing something on the weekend, people don't want to come out because
    of
    > place got too busy, no room to dance, or too many weekend warriors.
    >
    > hmm... seems like it's a lose-lose stituation here....
    > true??? gimme more indepth perception please....
    >
    > k
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
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    --__--__--

    Message: 5
    From: "Steve Silvers" <steve_at_seattlegroove.com>
    To: "Laura Bee" <elektrogenic_at_yahoo.com>,
     <euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx>
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Matt has some good points...
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:41:32 -0400

    Does anyone have a Wedenesday night that is doing well?

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Laura Bee" <elektrogenic_at_yahoo.com>
    To: <euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx>
    Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 4:19 PM
    Subject: [Euphonic] Matt has some good points...

    > the problem in the scene right now is a multi-facected one. I wasn't at
    chop suey simply because wednesday killed me financially. In fact Hybrid
    will only be going 2 more weeks and then we are calling it quits due to an
    apparant lack of interest. The R.U.R. show was one of the best live
    performances I have seen in Seattle, but not many people came out for it. I
    think that charging for a weeknight in this economy is one way to lower
    attendance, but how do we put on decent shows otherwise? Working with KEXP
    is not cheap, unless you get full blown sponsorship and when promoters are
    funneling their cash into getting bands/DJs here, there sometimes isn't much
    left for that kind of advertising, though I agree it is crucial. I think a
    lot of us bank on word of mouth and the free ads we get in weekly listings
    to help far more than they do. When I go out to promote, I almost always
    hand out cds with flyers, but that still doesn't peak the interest that is
    seems like it should. I have found that people don't want to check out a
    performer they have never/only recently been exposed to, so those of us
    bringing in more underground acts have to rely on those in the know to come
    out and support the shows. Which brings us to your point, Matt, of those
    people in the know not wanting to pay a cover which contributes to killing a
    night. I am glad this discussion is happening here. I think that it could
    give us all some insight as to the state of the electronic music scene in
    Seattle. I for one am looking forward to becoming a clubber again and just
    enjoying the music (Robo. Trash?). -laura
    >
    > Matt Corwine <mcorwine_at_speakeasy.org> wrote:this is a tough one. this is
    the kind of discussion for which we ought to
    > be using euphonic a lot more. i have a lot of random unfocused ideas on
    > this, having spent a long time on every side of this table, from random
    > clubgoer to promoter to artist to journalist...
    >
    > michael makes a good point about the support of the fans -- i think that's
    > a big part of the problem. part of it is fans who stay home and chill
    > rather than head out to the show, and the other part is that a lot of the
    > fans already consider themselves part of the hipster class and don't
    expect
    > to pay even when the promoter is taking a risk. that's the catch about
    > doing shows here - the crowd here is not tiny but it's small enough that
    if
    > you bring in an artist who's well-known but niche, most of your audience
    > are the type that would expect to get in free anyway. (i'm guilty of this
    > myself -- i try to support by writing about the shows / artists i like,
    but
    > print publicity doesn't make as much of a difference as journalists think
    > it does. so when i can afford it and when i believe in what the show's
    > about, i pay my share when the club's not rammed and do my alcoholist best
    > to bump up the bar's take.) is greed the problem?
    >
    > i think a lot of it comes down to communication and promotion, but not in
    > the ways most of us are used to. carey has a good point about radio - kexp
    > really does reach people and their support makes a big difference.
    > dropping flyers at record stores and spamming promoter lists isn't
    > effective. even hand-to-hand street promotion only works if you've got
    > other kinds of wood behind that arrow. building hype about something takes
    > more than just telling lots of people about your shows and then making
    them
    > feel bad when they don't show up. is sloppy promotion the problem?
    >
    > but bob also touches on a more uncomfortable truth - that dance music as
    we
    > know it might not be as interesting or popular around here as we think it
    > is. we have a glut of talent and nights here but a drought of everyday
    > punters - most of the house nights i check out are (sparsely) populated by
    > DJs, promoters and their friends. it's a nice social scene but it's
    > unsustainable. is that the problem?
    >
    > i used to joke that we should institute a fee structure for house music --
    > you want to be a DJ? $500 please, we'll donate it to charity. want to
    > throw a night? $2,000. cash or charge? maybe if there were more barriers
    > to entry people would get a little more focused. :-)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ---------------------------------
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    > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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    --__--__--

    Message: 6
    From: "Mr. Bob Hansen" <bob_at_squid-records.com>
    To: <Euphonic_at_f4.ca>
    Subject: RE: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:54:52 -0700

    > I hear a lot of excuses from promoters, "it's the
    > war!" or "there was a show at Re-Bar that night" or
    > "it rained" or "it was too hot" NO, you know what
    > it is? It is a tired fan base.

    Well, think about it a bit: we're talking about a genre of music that
    prides it self on the every characteristics that make it almost
    unlistenable to the majority of the global population. The only people
    who can PURCHASE copies of the music to listen to are DJ's, and anybody
    else who wants to spend $10 on a couple songs. It gets close to ZERO
    radio play, and when it does it's in a mixed DJ set, where you don't
    know what's being played anyway. Since the people who make the music
    like to stay faceless and "underground", it gets no mainstream coverage
    of any kind...magazine, MTV, whatever. So how the hell are people
    supposed to know that Stewart Walker is even somebody they should go out
    and see?!

    The problem isn't anything we in the NW are doing wrong - it's
    electronic dance music in general. It's boring as fuck. I think we
    should all be taking cues from acts like Underworld, Daft Punk, and
    Basement Jaxx, etc. Do something different. Have fun. Show your face
    once in a while. Give people a show. Make music that people want to, and
    CAN, listen to on a regular basis. Embrace the pop...maybe people will
    actually notice. It's totally possible to do all this and still retain
    your dignity and keep the integrity in your music.

    --__--__--

    Message: 7
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:04:40 -0700
    To: euphonic_at_f4.ca
    From: Matt Corwine <mcorwine_at_speakeasy.org>
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Stewart Walker tonight at Chop Suey!

    another approach would be to book a non-headliner to close out the night --
    even for the last hour, if not 12-2. i can handle being up 'till 1 but not
    2 these days.

    and if you get people in the habit of coming early to catch the headliner,
    if they like what they hear and they've got a couple drinks down anyway,
    then they're more likely to say "fuck it" and hang around.

    and for new DJs it's a more challenging gig -- you've got a crowd, can you
    keep it? they'll try a lot harder than if they're playing for the lighting
    guy and the bar backs.

    and: AMEN to bob's point about the music being kind of tired. for me it's
    more about a lack of energy and excitement - i don't feel like i'm part of
    something exciting or different or new when i go out to an electronic show
    these days. you don't have to have a big ole' stage show like basement
    jaxx but you DO have to have some energy and presence when you play...

    At 01:36 PM 4/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
    >I'll try it but you fuckers better come... One problem from the clubs
    >perspective is, since you can stay open until 2, if you close at 12 you lose
    >$$. now, I know if there is no one there between 12 and 2 anyway what is the
    >difference? well this isn't as easy for a club owner to see. Steven does a
    >lot of early shows... It doesn't seem to affect that much does it?
    >
    >on 4/18/03 3:22 PM, Mr. Bob Hansen at bob_at_squid-records.com wrote:
    >
    > >> I know a lot of people who would gladly pay $5-$10
    > >> to go out from 9PM - 11:30PM on a weeknight if they
    > >> knew they'd be able to catch the main acts.
    > >
    > > Oh my god. This is SO damn brilliant it hurts!! Can somebody PLEASE
    > > start doing this? Early weeknight electronic shows. I'm all over it.
    > >
    > >
    > > _______________________________________________
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    >
    >
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    Message: 8
    From: "Seatown Jungle" <terso1_at_hotmail.com>
    To: euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Matt has some good points...
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:07:39 -0700

    Comfort Zones.

    Here are some questions.

    What are you willing to pay to go into a club.
    What does the club have that you are willing to pay for.
    Examples: Nice decor, Killer sound, a great Bartender, friendly staff,
    excellent parking etc...
    When you go out what is your utmost motivation?
    Examples:Socialize, Drink, Dance, Support...

    I think Laura makes a good point about Exposure. How are we exposed to music
    and vibe. I mean you pass out a 10,000 flyers for an act do you think 1 in
    10 will go to that show no matter who's on the flyer?
    I think in general. We pressure ourselves as promoters to make things happen
    in our respected venues. There is a psychology in this city that needs to be
    understood in order to have a successful club night or show. Let's face it
    Weeklies are tough, esp when the venue is a "dance" venue. Where you have
    limited seating and people need to be tied into certain things to have fun.
    All across the US, there has been low attendances. Things are starting to
    pick up, but slowly. People have only so much money to spend each week on
    things, so they pick and choose. Economies of scale play a big role in how
    Seattle's electronic scene works. I truly truly wish we could have all ages/
    and 21+ mixed. I think you'd see a change in attendance, perhaps not
    alarming at first, but growth would occur. This week alone there was alot of
    music events going on around town. I think that played a big role in
    attendance issues.

    Ephraim

    Networks in the regime near the edge of chaos-this compromise between
    order and surprise-appear best able to coordinate complex activities....
    --Stuart Kauffman
    Bookings:# at work 800.570.1454 x67175
    local #206.353.6169

    From: "Steve Silvers" <steve_at_seattlegroove.com>
    To: "Laura Bee" <elektrogenic_at_yahoo.com>,<euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx>
    Subject: Re: [Euphonic] Matt has some good points...
    Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:41:32 -0400

    Does anyone have a Wedenesday night that is doing well?

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Laura Bee" <elektrogenic_at_yahoo.com>
    To: <euphonic_at_seattle.ffwd.cx>
    Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 4:19 PM
    Subject: [Euphonic] Matt has some good points...

    > the problem in the scene right now is a multi-facected one. I wasn't at
    chop suey simply because wednesday killed me financially. In fact Hybrid
    will only be going 2 more weeks and then we are calling it quits due to an
    apparant lack of interest. The R.U.R. show was one of the best live
    performances I have seen in Seattle, but not many people came out for it. I
    think that charging for a weeknight in this economy is one way to lower
    attendance, but how do we put on decent shows otherwise? Working with KEXP
    is not cheap, unless you get full blown sponsorship and when promoters are
    funneling their cash into getting bands/DJs here, there sometimes isn't much
    left for that kind of advertising, though I agree it is crucial. I think a
    lot of us bank on word of mouth and the free ads we get in weekly listings
    to help far more than they do. When I go out to promote, I almost always
    hand out cds with flyers, but that still doesn't peak the interest that is
    seems like it should. I have found that people don't want to check out a
    performer they have never/only recently been exposed to, so those of us
    bringing in more underground acts have to rely on those in the know to come
    out and support the shows. Which brings us to your point, Matt, of those
    people in the know not wanting to pay a cover which contributes to killing a
    night. I am glad this discussion is happening here. I think that it could
    give us all some insight as to the state of the electronic music scene in
    Seattle. I for one am looking forward to becoming a clubber again and just
    enjoying the music (Robo. Trash?). -laura
    >
    > Matt Corwine <mcorwine_at_speakeasy.org> wrote:this is a tough one. this is
    the kind of discussion for which we ought to
    > be using euphonic a lot more. i have a lot of random unfocused ideas on
    > this, having spent a long time on every side of this table, from random
    > clubgoer to promoter to artist to journalist...
    >
    > michael makes a good point about the support of the fans -- i think
    that's
    > a big part of the problem. part of it is fans who stay home and chill
    > rather than head out to the show, and the other part is that a lot of the
    > fans already consider themselves part of the hipster class and don't
    expect
    > to pay even when the promoter is taking a risk. that's the catch about
    > doing shows here - the crowd here is not tiny but it's small enough that
    if
    > you bring in an artist who's well-known but niche, most of your audience
    > are the type that would expect to get in free anyway. (i'm guilty of this
    > myself -- i try to support by writing about the shows / artists i like,
    but
    > print publicity doesn't make as much of a difference as journalists think
    > it does. so when i can afford it and when i believe in what the show's
    > about, i pay my share when the club's not rammed and do my alcoholist
    best
    > to bump up the bar's take.) is greed the problem?
    >
    > i think a lot of it comes down to communication and promotion, but not in
    > the ways most of us are used to. carey has a good point about radio -
    kexp
    > really does reach people and their support makes a big difference.
    > dropping flyers at record stores and spamming promoter lists isn't
    > effective. even hand-to-hand street promotion only works if you've got
    > other kinds of wood behind that arrow. building hype about something
    takes
    > more than just telling lots of people about your shows and then making
    them
    > feel bad when they don't show up. is sloppy promotion the problem?
    >
    > but bob also touches on a more uncomfortable truth - that dance music as
    we
    > know it might not be as interesting or popular around here as we think it
    > is. we have a glut of talent and nights here but a drought of everyday
    > punters - most of the house nights i check out are (sparsely) populated
    by
    > DJs, promoters and their friends. it's a nice social scene but it's
    > unsustainable. is that the problem?
    >
    > i used to joke that we should institute a fee structure for house music

    --
     > you want to be a DJ? $500 please, we'll donate it to charity. want to
     > throw a night? $2,000. cash or charge? maybe if there were more barriers
     > to entry people would get a little more focused. :-)
     >
     >
     >
     >
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