From: Steve (scatanzaro4_at_cox.net)
Date: 2004-06-27 23:26:08
ok matt, I will throw one more volley your way, then I'll call it quits
for myself on this topic... (so the neo-socialist tunepimps on this list
can stick it 2 me every which way from the man's computer on monday
morning!!!)
u say;
western companies cherry-pick the most promising
stuff and are given the proprietory research for
basically nothing because of the system's logic of
helping private corporations."
i say;
u say "cherry-pick" as if only massive, "institutionalized" companies
can do r&d; in music tech, at least, a lot of the good products are
coming from smaller companies.
its amazing to me that a socialist can watch a company grow from a
garage to a $60 billion worldwide enterprise in about the time it took
them to get their MS in trans-gender studies and still caricature
venture capitalism as "cherry-picking."
hell, just look at michael moore... in a relatively short time, he's
gone from railing against corporations to BECOMING a corporation. could
that happen in a socialist country? capitalism rewards moore for his
hard work (criticizing capitalism) with millions of dollars and a
nationwide stage, while fidel throws dissidents in jail by the hundreds.
where would moore be in cuba? there, u couldn't make money w. a
pro-party movie ('cuz nobody's got any money) and u couldn't make money
w. an anti-party movie, cuz you'd be cooling your heels in JAIL!
this sophisticated pop music u speak of in cuba, is there any anti-fidel
anti-socialist sentiment in the music? is there any dissent? of course,
only a sick mind could possibly be critical of socialism in cuba.
history will be his judge.
but lets stay away from defense, or health care, and just stick on
music. u admit that socialist countries won't produce the cutting edge
future of music technology. (but then again they might, who knows?) but
why should we believe they would produce the cutting edge future of
music?
now, the picture of america you paint is that 5% (or so) of the super
wealthy are giving their kids music lessons, and the rest of the
proletariat are out there in free fall, with no music education
whatever.
u say;
"Name me a significant new artist from the ghetto or small
town besides hip-hop. i'd argue that even (innovative)
hip-hop is a somewhat more middle class. again, you'll
probably think that i am being elitist, but there IS
good and bad (innovative and no-innovative) music."
ok, significant new artist from ghetto or small town; do u want just the
ones I know personally, or the ones I've read about?
i've personally watched people go from not being able to put gas in
their car to tooling around in bentleys. I mean, there are so many, its
hard to know where to start.
as for innovative; did roni size grow up rich? is prince from the upper
east side of manhattan? dr dre didn't grow up in westwood. What about
missy elliot? kaidi tatham? marshall mathers?
u say music is not like boxing. actually, i'd say it is, in the sense
that, it is not really a practical, "easy" way to move up in the world,
it takes a lot of work, a lot of talent, and beyond that, to be a
professional, a lot of savvy and smooth move making.
now, are socialist boxers better than capitalist boxers? it's a silly
argument... boxing talent, like music talent, doesn't respect borders.
but who would u rather be today... teofilo stevens or george foreman?
likewise, sure there's a lot of great musicians in cuba... and I'll bet
most would trade places with arturo sandoval in a heartbeat.
in fact, here are arturo's own words on fidel;
"I met him several times. I was there until I was 40 years old. I met
him several times and I tell you I also met a lot of people who knew him
and his mentality is one of the toughest things you can imagine. He's a
tough, nasty son of a bitch. It's impossible to believe you can
establish a conversation or a dialogue with him. Whoever dreams about
that is crazy. They don't know what they are talking about. They don't
know the man. To establish any sort of conversation with him is
impossible. He only believes what he has in his brain. What he wants to
do is keep the power and get richer and richer. He don't care about
anyone else..."
u say u'd rather have the intelligentsia, whoever they may be, determine
who gets promoted in cultural terms instead of the mass market;
the same mass market that paid fortunes for duke ellington, gorge
gershwin, rachmaninoff, cole porter, miles davis, jimi hendrix, lennon
and mcartney, stevie wonder, ray charles, marvin gaye, bill withers,
louis armstrong, wayne shorter, herbie hancock, chick corea, keith
jarrett, oscar peterson, John Coltrane (that's RIGHT... the masses ate
up "love supreme" while the expert critics were saying jazz had
died!)... and however many more genius musicians that lived very
comfortable lives thanks to the admiration and appreciation of "the mass
market."
i mean i gotta tell ya... i went to see prince in concert the other
nite. like a good capitalist (oxymoron?) i was trying to run the numbers
in my head... how much money is changing hands here? i got to chill w.
the people who ran the venue... (in glendale, az) and realized that
prince was rocking SIX semitrucks of equipment, SIX full sized tour
busses (for his 7 piece BAND to ride in)... etc. etc. etc.
but u know what? who can do what prince does? i've never even been a
true prince fan, but, man, the way he plays the guitar alone..., plus
his singing, songwriting, stage performance, etc...
why, dear socialist, would u begrudge the man his millions? it may not
buy him happiness...he can't buy that... but it did buy him a musician's
dream recording studio in which to drown his sorrows!!!
anyways, i've said all I got on the subject... controversial opinions
among musicians / djs (i.e. tunepimps)... maybe I'm wrong, what do I
know... i've got to duck out b4 the tolerance now crowd comes asking 4
my head.
!!!
OUT