From: Carl Barimore (carl_at_stirtloe.fsnet.co.uk)
Date: 2005-04-20 00:07:18
Hi there
I reckon it's got nothing to do with technology or with changing music styles. As far as music goes, this list was never about AJ when it was at it's biggest. It was about EVERY genre and it was about record sleeves and mixers/equipment and t-shirts and gigs and instruments and all the rest. That was why it was so good.
It was me who posted that e-mail last year that Erik speaks of. It's worth looking at again because I posted up a graph showing just how the post count has declined. As I said at the time, the traffic hasn't declined slowly; it went into freefall after July 2002. July 2002 was also when there was a major list policy change:
http://www.cmd.uu.se/AcidJazz/Backup/2002-Jul/0181.html
I believe this change took away a large number of contributors- those who were not subscribed but viewed the list by looking at the mail archives and occasionally posted when they wanted to. This was a good option for many, as it meant they could use the list like an on-line forum, reading and contributing without having all the e-mail traffic in their inboxes. And remember it used to be huge, something like 20 posts a day- far too much for some people's work/uni accounts. I remember that occasional posters made up a good chunk of the conversation on the list, and I reckon many of them faded away when the list was changed. This would certainly explain the trend in the graph.
I remember that every post used to be answered- someone could answer any music related question. That was why I joined: I wanted to know the source of a sample in a tune so I sent a post to this list, and I got 6 answers back telling me it was 'Summer Madness' by Kool & the Gang!!! Then the conversation went on for about another 10 posts!!!! I was so impressed I subscribed right away.
It is a case of positive feedback: an active list will encourage new comers, who are impressed by all the conversation. A dead list encourages no new comers because they subscribe, send a post, get no answer, and then unsubscribe again.
The auto-generated adverts and playlists do not help. I have always valued the playlists, and when the list was really active you didn't notice them so much because they were almost drowned out by all the discussion. Now, it's the other way around, and the robots make up most of the posts. I think in the list's poor health this DOES NOT HELP. It can only turn-off new comers. If you're going to put up with the junk e-mails, you need a nice active list to make up for it, and right now this is not the case.
Here's what I reckon would help:
1. Re-open the list to unsubscribed posters.
2. Ban all radio/event adverts that have been copied to the list, and all playlists that listees do not request be kept (as some are very good).
I don't mean ban advertising people's events, just those e-mails that are not personal ones, if you see what I mean. After all, if the list dies, they won't be advertising to anyone anyway, will they!
Unfortunately the following this list built up has largely gone, and I'm not sure there are many lurkers left to help pick it up. But hopefully, if we get rid of the robots- strip the list to it's bare bones- and the AJers who are left start to use it again, the list might start to accrue new members, and may still be saved.
When this list was big there was NOTHING LIKE IT on the net. And the sad thing is, nothing as good has replaced it- which is exactly why it is STILL WORTH TRYING TO BRING IT BACK. So I'm appealing to you Erik: I know you probably don't have time to manage the list often, but surely the list is worth one more shot! You've already done so much by bringing the list into being, and we all owe you a debt for that. But this list will not be able to save itself.
Cheers
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: ZeroGravity Sessions
To: Erik Borälv ; acid-jazz_at_ucsd.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] Technology and acid jazz
Hello ,
we are not such old members of AJ but truly the degree of information sharing, critique and technical talk has dropped to zero now.
True as it is most listees have developed into full blown producers/writers/performing artists which is good, so probably they do not have time to share...unless it is their web syte!!!!
However i do not think that drop in record sales has nothing to do with drop in posts in AJ, there is, in my opinion, still a lot of thirst for the development and nurturing of taste of younger musicians and future tastemakers.
Altough this genre is reaching some full capacity and loads of new releases are just boring repetitions of already heard tunes( same as it happened with the height and fall of disco music), jazz as a root has still a lot to express especially in fields such as the breaks, d&b, lounge,broken beat.
A one catch all mailing list is still the best option for gathering all info into one handy format to choose from, instead of a Forum where action is more focused on opening a web syte and browsing to the forum of interest.
Finally if the subject of this mail is tech&acid jazz i would expect us to share thoughts on sequencer, drum machines, live musicians and the use of sampling software / production software....is that something you'd like to comment on ?
long live AJ
with love
www.radiozerogravity.net
Erik Borälv <Erik.Boralv_at_it.uu.se> wrote:
Andrei wrote:
> Admittedly, I have not kept up with the changes to the list in several
> years. I am curious, however, to learn how blogging and podcasting
> have (or are about to) influenced the list or members.
>
> It seems that a mailing list may no longer be the most efficient tool
> to get the word out about incredible new music.
This was discussed some time ago, when the rate of mails started to
drop. The drop started back in 2002. Carl Barimore wrote about this in
2004, a good read:
http://www.cmd.uu.se/AcidJazz/Backup/2004-Apr/0089.html
I do believe that many of the "hardcore" listees moved on, to play/write
music more professionally. A lot of list memebrs now blog instead - hey,
even *I* blog more than I write on the list. Blogs are of course more
than a small trend. There is also so many new f! orums to compete with, at
record labels and the band's own sites.
In the previous discussion many things were said about the changes - it
was suggested the drop in record sales had to do something with it? The
genre, if there ever was one, has changed more and more. Some of those
changes have got less exiting I think.
And, for mailing lists, staying alive for more than 10 years is really
something. Not many lists do that. See this post from 1994:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.music.info/browse_thread/thread/ac11c14c06f64e7b/d84a5259055c61d3?q=Gregory+B.+Beuthin&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3DGregory+B.+Beuthin%26qt_s%3DSearch+Groups%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#d84a5259055c61d3
I welcome a discussion about this, and the future. We are now at about
100 posts per month.
Cheers,
--
Erik Borälv, http://user.it.uu.se/~erikb/
Uppsala University/Department of Information Technology/HCI
Box 3! 37, SE-751 05 Uppsala, Sweden. http://www.it.uu.se/
Voice: +46(0)18 471 2828, Mobile: +46(0)70 425 01 44
AJ: http://www.cmd.uu.se/AcidJazz
Admin: acid-jazz_at_ucsd.edu
Zerogravity,audiovisuals for the post Jazz generation.
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