Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] outing

From: Lynne d Johnson (lynnedjohnson@earthlink.net)
Date: Thu Dec 19 2002 - 18:40:51 CET

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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:08:27 -0500
From: Lynne d Johnson <lynnedjohnson@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] outing

Thank you all for the education.

Peace,
Lynne

From: "Stimp" <stimp@aei.ca>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:21:14 -0500
To: "BRIAN" <bbaltin@earthlink.net>, "David Bassin" <bassyd@pacbell.net>,
"Acid Jazz ml - UCSD" <acid-jazz@ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] outing

The term "industrial", as far as I know, was termed by Throbbing
Gristle, but I can't rememember how the term was coined. I have a feeling
it had something to do with "Industrial Records", the record label which
they launched in order to release their sonic collages and experiments.
Personally, I'd add bands like Skinny Puppy, Suicide, Ministry, Revolting
Cocks, Can, Kraftwerk etc... to the list of industrial pioneers. Check out
www.allmusic.com , it's all there.

Many seem to pick Throbbing Gristle as the "true" pioneers of the modern
industrial sound (I'd argue that point), probably more because they coined
the term "industrial music" than for any other legitimate reason. In any
case, if this is the case and we were to take what they were doing in the
mid-70's, I'd go back MUCH further to contemporary Classical composers like
Stockhausen, Varese, Xenakis, Messaien, Boulez, Nono, Morricone's Grupo
Improvisazione, etc.... As far as I'm concerned, any true fan of electronic
music (i.e. not the trendsetter types concerned with filling their "cool"
quotient) should be at least somewhat familiar with early electronic music
pioneers like the ones mentioned above. Listening to early electronic tape
music and understanding the history will only make you further appreciate
the roots of what the new guys are laying down, and how far electronic music
has come.

I mean, there's nothing more industrial sounding that Iannis Xenakis'
"Persepolis", and that was recorded in 1971! Give it a listen, it's well
worth it. Asphodel records rereleased this excellent recording on cd just
this year, and it's definitely going to be making my albums of the year
list. They actually packaged the original 1971 performance as a double cd.
The second cd consists of remixes of "Persepolis" done by artists like
Merzbow, Otomo Yoshihide, Zbigniew Karkowski, Francisco Lopez, and others.
Personally, I find the remix cd rather weak, but the Xenakis performance is
essential listening, especially for fans of Industrial music et.al.

Stimp
----- Original Message -----
From: "BRIAN" <bbaltin@earthlink.net>
To: "David Bassin" <bassyd@pacbell.net>; "Acid Jazz ml - UCSD"
<acid-jazz@ucsd.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] outing

> Yes, the term industrial was bastardized to connote only industrial disco
> around 86 with Wax Trax's success, but before that it was the experimental
> (and, yes, occasionally harsh) electronics of groups like Throbbing
Gristle,
> SPK, the early Cabaret Voltaire, Ludus, 23 Skidoo, This Heat, and
countless
> other groups.
> That said, plenty of the industrial groups were doing completely
> danceable music that wasn't about nondescript syncopated beats at all, but
> very organic "white boy funk." Groups like 23 Skidoo, Ludus, the Pop
Group,
> Rip Rig and Panic, et. al. , were at least as responsible for acid jazz
and
> its offshoots as Style Council, Working Week, and all the others that
people
> automatically mention.
>
> Brian Baltin
>
> On 12/15/02 10:19 PM, "David Bassin" <bassyd@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> Oh, if we want to talk industrial...shouldn't we go back to Nitzer Ebb,
> >> Bronski Beat? Or does it go back even further?
> >
> >
> > Bronski Beat???? Jimmy Somerville and Co. were the furthest thing
> > from industrial music you could name. They were pure disco in the
> > '80s sense of the word. As for Nitzer Ebb, they were
> > industrial-lite.....
> >
> > DB
> >
>
>

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Message: 22 
  Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:08:27 -0500 
  From: Lynne d Johnson <lynnedjohns=
on@earthlink.net> 
Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] outing 
 
 
 
Thank you all for the education. 
 
Peace, 
Lynne 
 
 
From: "Stimp" <stimp@aei.ca</FONT=
>> 
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:21:14 -0500 
To: "BRIAN" <bbaltin@earthlink.net</U=
>>, "David Bassin" <bassyd@p=
acbell.net>, 
"Acid Jazz ml - UCSD" <acid-jazz@ucsd=
.edu> 
Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] outing 
 
 
   The term "industrial", as far as I know, was t=
ermed by Throbbing 
Gristle, but I can't rememember how the term was coined.  I have a fee=
ling 
it had something to do with "Industrial Records", the record labe=
l which 
they launched in order to release their sonic collages and experiments. 
Personally, I'd add bands like Skinny Puppy, Suicide, Ministry, Revolting<B=
R>
Cocks, Can, Kraftwerk etc... to the list of industrial pioneers.  Chec=
k out 
www.allmusic.com , it's all there. 
 
  Many seem to pick Throbbing Gristle as the "true" pi=
oneers of the modern 
industrial sound (I'd argue that point), probably more because they coined<=
BR>
the term "industrial music" than for any other legitimate reason.=
 In any 
case, if this is the case and we were to take what they were doing in the<B=
R>
mid-70's, I'd go back MUCH further to contemporary Classical composers like=
 
Stockhausen, Varese, Xenakis, Messaien, Boulez, Nono, Morricone's Grupo 
Improvisazione, etc....  As far as I'm concerned, any true fan of elec=
tronic 
music (i.e. not the trendsetter types concerned with filling their "co=
ol" 
quotient) should be at least somewhat familiar with early electronic music<=
BR>
pioneers like the ones mentioned above.  Listening to early electronic=
tape 
music and understanding the history will only make you further appreciate<B=
R>
the roots of what the new guys are laying down, and how far electronic musi=
c 
has come. 
 
  I mean, there's nothing more industrial sounding that Iannis X=
enakis' 
"Persepolis", and that was recorded in 1971!  Give it a list=
en, it's well 
worth it.  Asphodel records rereleased this excellent recording on cd =
just 
this year, and it's definitely going to be making my albums of the year 
list.  They actually packaged the original 1971 performance as a doubl=
e cd. 
The second cd consists of remixes of "Persepolis" done by artists=
like 
Merzbow, Otomo Yoshihide, Zbigniew Karkowski, Francisco Lopez, and others.<=
BR>
Personally, I find the remix cd rather weak, but the Xenakis performance is=
 
essential listening, especially for fans of Industrial music et.al. 
 
Stimp 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BRIAN" <bbaltin@earthlink.net<=
/U>> 
To: "David Bassin" <bassyd@pacbell.ne=
t>; "Acid Jazz ml - UCSD" 
<acid-jazz@ucsd.edu> 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:12 AM 
Subject: Re: [acid-jazz] outing 
 
 
> Yes, the term industrial was bastardized to connote only industrial di=
sco 
> around 86 with Wax Trax's success, but before that it was the experime=
ntal 
> (and, yes, occasionally harsh) electronics of groups like Throbbing<BR=
>
Gristle, 
> SPK, the early Cabaret Voltaire, Ludus, 23 Skidoo, This Heat, and 
countless 
> other groups. 
>     That said, plenty of the industrial groups wer=
e doing completely 
> danceable music that wasn't about nondescript syncopated beats at all,=
but 
> very organic "white boy funk." Groups like 23 Skidoo, Ludus,=
the Pop 
Group, 
> Rip Rig and Panic, et. al. , were at least as responsible for acid jaz=
z 
and 
> its offshoots as Style Council, Working Week, and all the others that<=
BR>
people 
> automatically mention. 
> 
> Brian Baltin 
> 
> On 12/15/02 10:19 PM, "David Bassin" <bassyd@pacbell.net> wrote: 
> 
> >> Oh, if we want to talk industrial...shouldn't we go back to N=
itzer Ebb, 
> >> Bronski Beat? Or does it go back even further? 
> > 
> > 
> > Bronski Beat???? Jimmy Somerville and Co. were the furthest thing=
 
> > from industrial music you could name. They were pure disco in the=
 
> > '80s sense of the word. As for Nitzer Ebb, they were 
> > industrial-lite..... 
> > 
> > DB 
> > 
> 
> 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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