mean unjust things like: enacting sanctions on food and medicine to entire
nations in response to the terrible actions of an elite few, like bombing
pharmacies and water treatment centers in a vain attempt to get revenge on Bin
Laden after the embassy bombings.
Yes evil exists, in the USA and abroad, and it begats itself over and over
again. No, nobody ever did anything that would warrant or justify what happened
yesterday, but in order to understand what happened yesterday we must examine
our actions in relation to those that view us as their enemies.
The fact is, no matter how evil or monstrous the people who did this are, they
are people. Their motivations are human motivations, and however warped, their
actions and beliefs are shaped by some logic.
I think we need to take a look at everything that led up to this point
(including also US/CIA facilitation of terrorist traing and activity) before we
retaliate indiscriminantly against every "people / states / despots / terrorist
/ dictators/ cowards / racist / bigot thug" we think might have been involved.
As to Israel. I think both the Israelis and the Palestinians are acting like
hate-blinded bloodthirsty assholes. I don't think the USA should be supporting
any of them. As to a "right to exist," how does Israel have any more such a
right than does Palestine? (And before you scream anti-semite, I'm Jewish.)
Look, I'd like to kill the guys that did this with my bare hands. That does not
mean other innocent people must neccesarily die in the cross-fire, and it
certainly doesn't mean I need to ignore the fact the USA is far from innocent in
terms of perpetrating unjust/terroristic acts itself, or from contributing to
(not creating or causing) the existance of people like Bin Laden.
Your refusal to acknowledge those facts borders on the fanatic, which is what I
thought we were all condeming here.
Steve Catanzaro wrote:
> You mean, unjust things like supporting Israel's right to exist? Checking
> Sadaam Hussein's lust for unfettered power and control over the Arab world,
> including probably those very territories which harbor terrorists? Precisely
> what "unjust thing" did America do to the people / states / despots /
> terrorist / dictators/ cowards / racist / bigot thugs who committed /
> sponsored these acts?
>
> To those calling for compromise; compromise with who, and on what points?
> Compromise with those who advocate the complete destruction of the state of
> Israel? How, exactly, are we to do that, without complicity in both
> anti-Semitism and genocide?
>
> So, we trained underground Afghanis to defend themselves against the
> invading occupying Russian army. Most Americans at the time thought that was
> a good idea. They have now turned this knowlege against us. Might as well
> blame Embry-Riddle university for teaching men to fly, or Leonard da Vinci,
> for dreaming that one day they might be able to.
>
> I realize that moral equivalence may be the hip, quasi intellectual
> philosophy of the day, but I suggest its time to *wake up* and recognize
> that evil exists in the world, and its manifestation has hardly been more
> palpable since the 3rd Reich...
>
> I also submit that "many Americans do not realize" just how many people
> around the world, even in the very same countries where people were jumping
> for joy at the thought of American civilians jumping out of 100 story
> buildings, would give anything for the chance to be American citizens.
> America may be the most hated place on earth, but it is also the most loved.
> That, too, is simply a bit of perspective.
>
> The point, as I took it, was that for many Americans, it is
> > important to realize that we helped train and create the power-structure
> for
> > these "monsters," and left unsaid, but I think implied, is that while
> > yesterday's attacks are some of the most evil, awful things we've ever
> seen, the
> > US *has* done many unjust things that have inspired hatred of us in the
> rest of
> > the world. Many Americans do not realize that. It's simply a bit of
> > perspective.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Sep 13 2001 - 00:12:19 CEST